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  #37  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 08:01 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

So your argument for removing K. Awa is because you want to play him with the 10th?

Sounds reasonable to me.

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Last edited by R˙chean; August 23rd, 2011 at 08:10 PM. Reason: I say a third time: put your big boy pants on
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  #38  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 08:37 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

I want to make clear, rym and I will not be putting on the same pair of pants. As a matter of principle.

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  #39  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 09:40 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Got it! rym and AnubianWolf are not wearing the principal's pants...any more.
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  #40  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

You guys make me laugh. (That's a good thing ).

And just so you know, Mister-Rolly-Eyes, the reason I asked about Kaemon Awa was because the discussion had been made in this thread about removing him from the list, and adding him back in (or off, depending on your perspective) would have had an impact on a possible army or two I was considering.

So there.

"Chewie should move 6, lumbering or not. He's got long-ass legs"-

Last edited by rym; August 23rd, 2011 at 09:48 PM. Reason: My principal was a girl. She had hot pants.
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  #41  
Old February 10th, 2012, 02:53 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Just adding the discussion carried on in the tournament thread as it pertains to the restricted list and Kaemon Awa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dignan
The goal of the restricted list is to be a universal tool to help reduce the prevalence of the top tier figures at tournaments. With that in mind, Kaemon was added to the list as he is a superior choice for his point range and role. He is one of the best choices possible for a cleanup figure: he is less than 150 points, has a defensive ability, has range, has a special attack, and can attack multiple times. These are key attributes for a cleanup figure and he has them all.

Here is a comparison to the other figures in this category and point range:
Agent Skahen: No special attack, critical 3 defense 3 life difference.
Siege: No special attack, no range.
Tandros Kreel: No special attack, weak range, no defensive ability (though he is a little more stout).
Deathwalker 8000: He's a deathwalker
Kee-Mo-Shee: No range, no defensive ability
Tul-Bak-Ra: No normal range, no defensive ability, can't attack multiple times.
Wu-Sa-Ga: No range, no defensive ability, no special attack, can;t attack multiple times.

The list goes on and on. Kaemon Awa is simply a culmination of great abilities well suited to an important role in tournament Heroscape. While he might not be a "game breaker" he is clearly top-tier talent for that role. I don't see him coming off the list any time soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolaski
Given your reasoning, I'm , , that the Fen Hydra isn't on the restricted list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dignan
The Fen Hydra is close and we've actually discussed adding him to the list in that thread. However, he doesn't have significant range nor a special attack. Additionally, being a double based figure, his movement is slightly impaired. In a cleanup situation, every movement point you can squeeze out of a figure can mean the difference between winning and losing.

Fen Hydra is more suited to an opening figure where he can move out, get engaged, and really deal some damage with all 4 attacks. Kaemon is more universally suited to be a cleanup figure than the Hydra. The Hydra is still very strong, it just fills a different role that has a little more competition.

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  #42  
Old February 10th, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

If I were constructing a restricted list from scratch, and I had to keep its size roughly comparable with this one, I would include both the Fen Hydra and the Marro Warriors before Kaemon Awa. I would also consider banning the 4th outright.

That said, what I would do from scratch isn't relevant here. The point of the DFW restricted list isn't to create some hypothetical standard. It's to improve the diversity of play at DFW tournaments. If the current list does that job, then radical change isn't needed.

Last edited by dok; February 10th, 2012 at 03:09 PM. Reason: P.S. You guys should play more Hydras, they're really good.
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  #43  
Old February 10th, 2012, 04:56 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

As he said, the Hydra is close.

but Marro Warriors? Not seeing that at all.

A must read for all 'Scapers!

Last edited by R˙chean; February 10th, 2012 at 05:13 PM. Reason: it is a tad bit insulting to suggest we don't know the value of the Hydra because of not playing them enough
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  #44  
Old February 10th, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
As he said, the Hydra is close.

but Marro Warriors? Not seeing that at all.
I would argue that the Marro Warriors are even more absurdly efficient in a cleanup role for their points than Kaemon Awa is. I've argued before that they belong on the list for basically the same reasons as Isamu.

But none of that matters. If people play Kaemon and Isamu a ton in unrestricted formats, but not the Marro Warriors, then the former two make more sense on the list than the latter does. Simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
it is a tad bit insulting to suggest we don't know the value of the Hydra because of not playing them enough
I meant it purely as a joke; I was implying that people should play them more so that Dignan will add them to the restricted list. It was just a joke about the nature of the restricted list (i.e. a reflection of what gets overplayed in Dallas as opposed to an absolute measure of figure awesomeness). I apologize for the unintended insult.

I do think the Hydra is pretty much the best at what it does for its points, but, again, that doesn't really matter.
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  #45  
Old February 10th, 2012, 09:49 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
As he said, the Hydra is close.

but Marro Warriors? Not seeing that at all.
I would argue that the Marro Warriors are even more absurdly efficient in a cleanup role for their points than Kaemon Awa is.
A 50pt unit is not a good "closing" card in a tournament setting. If a match gets called for time, the marro player will usually lose. I've seen it happen more than once. I agree with your assessment, but only when time isn't a factor.

A must read for all 'Scapers!

Last edited by R˙chean; February 10th, 2012 at 09:59 PM. Reason: jokes are supposed to be funny
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  #46  
Old February 11th, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
As he said, the Hydra is close.

but Marro Warriors? Not seeing that at all.
I would argue that the Marro Warriors are even more absurdly efficient in a cleanup role for their points than Kaemon Awa is.
A 50pt unit is not a good "closing" card in a tournament setting. If a match gets called for time, the marro player will usually lose. I've seen it happen more than once. I agree with your assessment, but only when time isn't a factor.
Marro Warriors are pretty good. They are also a unit we've discussed adding to the list. I could see adding them.

One of the things that keeps them from being on the list (IMO) is the number of spaces they require for a cleanup role. In our tournament scene, start zones are typically at capacity or very near. When you are 50 points short, many of our armies simply don't have 4 hexes to give for cleanup. Hence, the marros aren't seen all over the place.

With us not seeing an over abundance of Marros, I haven't felt the need to restrict them.

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  #47  
Old February 28th, 2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Why is isamu on the list? Is it to keep everyone from having isamus? I think he is pretty good and all but I don think he should be on the restricted list. Because he is only 10 points, 1 life, he isnt really a huge threat even with the vanish get one good shot at him and he is toast. It would also add some strategy to the game, to destroy isamu. I am fine if you disagree. Just a suggestion.

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  #48  
Old March 1st, 2013, 09:22 AM
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Re: DFW Tournaments - Restricted List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexmax2 View Post
Why is isamu on the list? Is it to keep everyone from having isamus? I think he is pretty good and all but I don think he should be on the restricted list. Because he is only 10 points, 1 life, he isnt really a huge threat even with the vanish get one good shot at him and he is toast. It would also add some strategy to the game, to destroy isamu. I am fine if you disagree. Just a suggestion.
The main reason why we came up with this list is because the armies people were bringing to events were becoming stale. This list was generated to limit the prevalence of the most used figures. When Isamu first came out, he was thrown into nearly every army (unless an army just happened to hit the point total exactly). He was all over the place and for good reason; there is no better way to spend 10 points. Heck, he's better than Guilty or Elgrim in many ways.

With that in mind he was added to the list to encourage people to mix up their army composition a little bit instead of just slapping Isamu and/or Marcu onto the back of every army.

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