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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #37  
Old May 7th, 2019, 07:31 PM
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As An Example

I actually beat Major Q23 because I am very comfortable playing those Toolbox/splash armies and he made some errors (that we both agreed on) in deployment of my army.

~Dysole, who hasn't even thought about what she's bringing this year
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  #38  
Old May 7th, 2019, 09:36 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Yeah, I can see that. FWIW, I don’t think the type of armies that the Ash’s and myself pilot are the end-all-be-all. Honestly, I think you can bring any one of the archetypes and have a shot at a good run. It’s all how the army is built within that archetype, how you play, and who you’re matched up against (before my Top 8 game against Dok, we were actually speaking about how that was the matchup I most wanted to dodge out of all the 7 possibilities I could hit).

Last edited by OrcElfArmyOne; May 7th, 2019 at 09:37 PM. Reason: I think it’s awesome we’re in super “do what you want man” territory
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  #39  
Old May 8th, 2019, 12:01 AM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I've only ever played in one reverse the whip event online myself, but it seems to be a popular tourney format that I could really use to brush up on. That being the case, after reading this thread I would most likely start with Nilfheim+Greenscales x2 for a "Short but Good" army, as while it's a popular A-rank core it's one I consider myself fairly good with.

When considering the rest of the build, does anyone have any suggestions on how far under the point total to shoot? I imagine how short the army should be varies depending on how good it is, but in the context of A-rank armies it's difficult for me to judge that as ol' Nilfy is the only one I really have experience with. Additionally, if I'm already planning on running my army short, how worthwhile would it be to try some other little tricks in the build, like only running Greenies x1 instead of x2?

I can't make it to GenCon, so no specific event in mind for these questions. Just interested in improving my fundamentals for a format that I could use a bit of work on. Thanks in advance!
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  #40  
Old May 8th, 2019, 12:18 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I love the army advice: "Play what you Know and Know what you play" and in RTW its even more true as you are playing against what you bring. However my armies tend towards "Fast and Fragile" or "Bread and Butter" AKA "Swarming armies" as I love (i.e. have fun) playing with and against them and know them better than most, but I think are too easy in the hands of experienced players, and they are not that Order marker intensive. Are these armies too strong for Gencon (410, 16 fig max)?

VIPERS - 405, 17 figures (sit 1)
Armoc Vipers/Aubrien Archers x 1
Venoc Vipers x 4
Venoc Warlord x 1
Zetacron (Can bring Deadeye if Zetacron with +2 move is too strong)

MARRO PLAQUE
Marro Drones x 3
Su-Bak-Na
Marrden Nagrubs x 1
Stingers x 1 OR Me-Burk-Sa + Marcu

UNDEAD + RANGE
Zombies x 4
Johnny “Shotgun” Sullivan
KMA/Heirloom/Atlaga/Gurei-Oni/Agent Carr/Syvarris (adjust strength to suit meta)

Last edited by lefton4ya; May 8th, 2019 at 01:11 PM.
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  #41  
Old May 8th, 2019, 12:24 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I don't think there are any hard rules for how much to play short. And once you start thinking about it too much you start to end up asking a lot of questions. For example, what if you thought your Splash army was just a bit too good so you left it 20 points short? Really, there isn't any reason that you need to use all the points in RtW at all. It's just a habit people have because the point limit gives you some direction as to what figures you should be playing I guess.

(Well, there is one reason that people play full points, and that's games that go to time. Yes you can throw in Hatomato or Spartacus or whoever else you would like to make your army fill up the point total, but that skews you to a time advantage in the opposite direction. I don't know if enough games go to time for this to be relevant, but it is a reason.)

If you were showing up to Gencon this year with Nilfheim and 2x Greenscales (305 points) for the 410 point main event I think that would be about appropriate given the strength of those figures.

I'd say "Vipers" is about right "Marro Plaque" is too weak and "Undead + Range" is just a bit too strong, at a first look.
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  #42  
Old August 9th, 2019, 01:55 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

2019 update! Not any major thoughts as I'm still getting my head around all the builds and everything that happened.

Splash

infectedsloth 2019 (Won Main Event)

Heavies x2, Raelin, Nerak, Mezzos x1, Horned Skull Brutes x1

Splash finally gets the Main Event win. This army doesn't meet the Splash criteria of the "no more than 150 on any part of army" since Heavies x2 and Nerak are 190 but it's still splash. Clearly so because of double x1 commons. One of the stronger Splash builds in figure strength, but no range which makes it hard to play.

Dysole 2019 (Made Day 2)

Nakitas, Dividers x2, Roman Archers x2, Raelin 4-2

Not splash in terms of no 1x commons, but no more than 150 spent on any one part of army. Definitely fulfills the splash archetype of slow repositioning and grinding value out of figures. Probably the weakest splash armies ever in terms of individual figure value but it must be good as the army won quite a few games.

Toolbox

Major Q23 2019 (Made Day 2)

Axegrinders x2, Tarn, Heirloom, Tandros, Otonashi

Orcelfarmyone 2019 (Made Day 2)
Phantoms x2, Tarn, Concan, HSB x1, Mezzos x1

Toolbox is just splash without Raelin.

Short But Good

vegietarian18 2019 (Made Finals)

Deathchasers x3, Nerak, MBS, Theracus, Major X17

I'll class this as short but good since Deathchasers are good and X17 Theracus is a big waste of points even if usable. I'm a little more skeptical about the strength of these armies given how my losses went; playing short but good can end in losses where you just don't have enough steam in your army and it's often more the fault of the army choice than yours. But it's still viable and I did well because I knew the figures I was playing well.

Fast but Fragile:

Matthias 2019 (made Top 4)
Spiders x5, Wyvern x2, Otonashi

Sir Dendrick 2019 (made Top 4)

Venocs x4, Venoc Warlord, Krug

A solid performance for this archetype using some familiar pieces for it. I was especially impressed with the Wyverns this year. The Venoc build was almost too strong for the meta which seems crazy to say but I think it's right.
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  #43  
Old August 9th, 2019, 02:32 PM
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I Will Never Get Tired of This Joke

Not only did it win a lot of games, it only lost once to a straight heavies build and that game was still fairly close. Roman Archers OP. ~_^

~Dysole, who was really hoping she'd get to beat Deroche with Roman archers again
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  #44  
Old August 9th, 2019, 02:42 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

I still think there’s a fundamental difference in how Splash and Toolbox armies play. Toolbox is having answers to everything you may see. It requires each piece to be solid enough to survive without Raelin, and usually each piece needs to be a threat of some kind. The armies can look similar, but you have to be a lot more careful with your 1x squads when you don’t have Raelin to back them up. When I play Toolbox, I expect to lose every figure that is attacked, and as such, careful positioning and planning is of the upmost importance.
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  #45  
Old August 9th, 2019, 05:20 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Would Dysole's build be Splash or Bread and Butter? I guess it's kinda both?
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  #46  
Old August 9th, 2019, 06:01 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Splash and Toolbox are definitely different, my point was mostly a joke. Not having Raelin gives them space for one more tool which makes them more versatile and more important to sequence correctly and your figures will die quickly.

I confidently class Dysole's army as splash as the Dividers were a screen and the Roman Archers were speciality range, neither were bread and butter offense. But of course these categories are arbitrary I am just making these things up as I go.
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  #47  
Old August 9th, 2019, 08:23 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
Splash and Toolbox are definitely different, my point was mostly a joke. Not having Raelin gives them space for one more tool which makes them more versatile and more important to sequence correctly and your figures will die quickly.

I confidently class Dysole's army as splash as the Dividers were a screen and the Roman Archers were speciality range, neither were bread and butter offense. But of course these categories are arbitrary I am just making these things up as I go.
Lol yeah, thatís the charm of Toolbox armies. Ken always calls Raelin a crutch, and Toolbox exposes your mistakes hard. I love it because when you get punished that hard for a mistake, itís impossible to miss the fact that you made a mistake.
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  #48  
Old August 11th, 2019, 04:52 PM
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Re: Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes

@vegietarian18 What would you have done differently if you had been playing your Deathchasers build against my Venocs? I'm thinking I should have flown Major X17 with Theracus to the middle to create a choke point, making the Venoc storm more manageable. You already mentioned that I wasted Nerak by charging him to the front lines--anything other secrets to your army that you think I overlooked?

I think there's huge value in having units that aren't obvious to use like your Theracus/Major X17 portion.

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