The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Shiftrex]

I think that's great feedback, thankyou!

This discussion makes me think I need to shift the timing of the Hidden Star ability, especially if it isn't resonating with what it is supposed to be. I'm going to require the wound before rolling any attack dice. Might play around with it being a -shield/+skull and see where I get.

[AndreThaGiant]

Hello friends,

I'm getting ready to make my first SoV submission, and I'm looking for some outside insight to really dial down this broad design. I know the Axegrinders already have a lot of options for bonding, but I'd like to give them a little ranged love other than their Hill Giant investment of ~255 points.

I present,

Name: Grimgar Swiftsteel
Faction: Aquilla
Race: Dwarf
Unique Hero
Class: Fighter
Personality: Bold
Size: Medium 4

Life: 5
Move: 5
Range: 1
Attack: 4
Defense: 3
Points: 90

HURL AND HACK SPECIAL ATTACK Range Special. Attack Special. While engaged, choose a non-adjacent figure within 3 clear sight spaces of Grimgar Swiftsteel and roll 3 attack dice. Then, choose an adjacent figure to attack and roll 4 attack dice.

ADRENALINE RUSH If Grimgar Swiftsteel takes no wounds from a leaving engagement attack, he may add 3 to his move for that turn. This power may only be used once per turn.


The figure is Larethar Gulgrin - #6 from the D&D Icons of the Realms: Monster Menagerie. MiniatureMarket has 20+, Troll&Toad has approximately 40, CoolStuffInc has 12+, eBay has hundreds, and on top of that, there is an unpainted model that is vastly available as well.


Looking forward to your valuable feedback!

[superfrog]

I think Adrenaline Rush could be very fun if it was more consistent:

If Grimgar Swiftsteel leaves an engagement while moving normally, he may move 3 additional spaces during his normal movement.

Not sold on the theme that the ranged attack only works while engaged, obviously I like the gameplay implications but the theme isn't hitting for me there.

Grimgar is a cool name but too close to Grimnak imo.

[Sir Heroscape]

Some thoughts:

1) Love the mini. I fully support the use of this mini. I have it, and have always wanted to do something with it...but never got a good "feel" for a design. This is a good start and the availability screams for something here.

2) He's a dwarf...and it's kind of their theme to have some form of defense proficiency/tankiness. Nothing about 5 life and 3 def is tanky/defense oriented. That said, this dwarf has no shield and is lightly armored. So, I'm kinda in the middle on how I feel about that.

3) The special attack. I don't really know what theme you're going for here. He very clearly has a crossbow on his back (I have the mini so I know...even though the pic you can't really tell), so it makes sense for the mini to have a Special attack themed around that. Do something simple like...

QUICK BOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 2.
When attacking with Quick Bolt Special Attack, symbols count as skulls.

4) Adrenaline. I really like Superfrog's suggestion. Though if he's going to take wounds doing it...maybe give him 6 life? idk...but it seems like a really cool direction for that ability.

Excited to see how this ends up. I also wouldn't mind helping you playtest once you've rounded out the design a bit.

[AndreThaGiant]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I think Adrenaline Rush could be very fun if it was more consistent:



Not sold on the theme that the ranged attack only works while engaged, obviously I like the gameplay implications but the theme isn't hitting for me there.

Grimgar is a cool name but too close to Grimnak imo.

I like the rephrasing on the Adrenaline Rush!

Thoughts on an SA that can be used on ranged targets whether he's engaged or not? Similar to J15? Might encourage taking risks for his Adrenaline Rush to lockdown units, while maintaining his ranged capability. Plays into his Bold personality. I could keep it short at 3 range still.

My counter-argument to that would be that out of the pre-existing "grim's" in the game, 3 of them end with grim (Thorgrim, Eldgrim, Mogrimm), and only 1 of them start with grim (Grimnak). Since orcs have a knack for "nak," Grimgar doesn't feel as close to me as Grimnak. I'm completely open to revisiting his first name, I just wanted to highlight the contrast- mostly because I love the name Grimgar on him

[AndreThaGiant]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Some thoughts:

1) Love the mini. I fully support the use of this mini. I have it, and have always wanted to do something with it...but never got a good "feel" for a design. This is a good start and the availability screams for something here.

2) He's a dwarf...and it's kind of their theme to have some form of defense proficiency/tankiness. Nothing about 5 life and 3 def is tanky/defense oriented. That said, this dwarf has no shield and is lightly armored. So, I'm kinda in the middle on how I feel about that.

3) The special attack. I don't really know what theme you're going for here. He very clearly has a crossbow on his back (I have the mini so I know...even though the pic you can't really tell), so it makes sense for the mini to have a Special attack themed around that. Do something simple like...

QUICK BOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 2.
When attacking with Quick Bolt Special Attack, symbols count as skulls.

4) Adrenaline. I really like Superfrog's suggestion. Though if he's going to take wounds doing it...maybe give him 6 life? idk...but it seems like a really cool direction for that ability.

Excited to see how this ends up. I also wouldn't mind helping you playtest once you've rounded out the design a bit.

Thank you for the insight Sir! The mini hasn't come in for me yet, and I didn't notice he has a crossbow on his back! This opens up a whole new realm of ideas for his SA. Although, Mogrimm Forgehammer has a crossbow on his back as well. Is it implied that Commander's Strike is his crossbow ability? I always thought it was him throwing his hammer. I'm glad to see there is interest for this mini!

[Vydar_XLIII]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

3) The special attack. I don't really know what theme you're going for here. He very clearly has a crossbow on his back (I have the mini so I know...even though the pic you can't really tell), so it makes sense for the mini to have a Special attack themed around that. Do something simple like...

QUICK BOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 4. Attack 2.
When attacking with Quick Bolt Special Attack, symbols count as skulls.

I didn't realize the mini had a crossbow either. My understanding of the power, after some discussion on Discord, was that the HURL part was throwing the dagger in his left hand and had nothing to do with a crossbow and the HACK part was his longsword.

What if you kept the SA the same and swapped his base range and attack from 1/4 to 5/2 or 4/2 so his base stats represent the crossbow and the SA represents his dagger and longsword?

Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant

Although, Mogrimm Forgehammer has a crossbow on his back as well. Is it implied that Commander's Strike is his crossbow ability? I always thought it was him throwing his hammer. I'm glad to see there is interest for this mini!

Commander's strike comes straight out of D&D, It represents Mogrimm yelling out a command to the adjacent unit to attack, but since it has to be a figure's turn for them to attack it is done as a D20 roll.

[Sir Heroscape]

Well, the dagger isn't very unique...so I don't think the design should focus on that, unless you wanted to do something like "HIDDEN DAGGER SPECIAL ATTACK" or something where he gets a free unblockable attack roll or D20 roll or something if the defender blocks the initial attack...but really I think if there's a SA it should center around the compact Crossbow on his back.

[Astroking112]

Ranged bonders are very good in general, and the Axegrinders are already a great squad. It's worth careful testing there to ensure that Grimgar doesn't outshine the dwarves' other bonding options.

The crossbow makes sense as a special attack to me, or Grimgar could just have a normal ranged attack. Not every weapon on a sculpt needs to be represented, especially generic ones. In any case, I don't mind a simple ranged attack of some sort here, and it doesn't need any complicated bells and whistles to be fun to play with.

I don't see an immediate theme for attacking non-adjacent figures while engaged, though. Mok has gunners on his back making independent shots, the Mariedians adapted to fight Gladiatrons, and Major J15 has a guided missile. If you want Grimgar to be able to attack non-adjacent figures, then there needs to be a strong thematic reason for it to work well.

I like Adrenaline Rush a lot. It feels unique and fitting to the Axegrinders. I hope that some version of it sticks and feels impactful to the design; tying it to a ranged figure could have some interesting ramifications, especially if the ranged attack is benefitted by height advantage.

[Shiftrex]

- - - - - - -

FO-TO-KI-RO
GROTESQUE MONSTER



The figure used is Dire Troll #032 from ICONS OF THE REALMS: Fangs & Talons.

CHARACTER BIO:

Spoiler Alert!

Hunger...

The enormous troll squinted in the moonlight, three hands coming up to shield each pair of eyes from it considered a bright and horrid abomination. He sniffed the air, catching the smell of smoke and the horses catches his interest and he crawls out of an enormous cave. The dwelling was more like a hole in the ground. All around were pools of sickly green water, mud that the tallest men would sink into and never return and lush jungle leaves that helped to block out the light of the moon.

The creature pulled his enormous bulk from the ground, digging long furrows into the mud as it slipped and uprooting a tree to steady its balance. He made no attempts at being quiet, he had four mouths to feed and not one of them would wait longer. The troll fumbled through the jungle, pushing aside branches and upsetting tall trees as it moved and came upon what looked like a deserted campsite. The fire was still stoked high, horses were tied to a nearby log and tents were all around but there were no humans to be found... but he could smell them.

Even as his greedy fingers reached for one of the horses, a group of adventurers thought to take the creature from behind and gain the advantage. That was until an armor clad fighter moved out of the shadows and became frozen in fear, lodged in the back of the creature was a face... horrid and twisted but gleefully smiling and salivating at the site of a meal on two legs.

It was at this point that there were five loud thumps, a cry for help and the panicked frenzy of horses. That night the troll ate well and managed to ebb its hunger a bit, though the meal was quickly consumed. Five hands shoveled the grotesque feast down one of four throats as it began looking around for what else it could eat.

This was the vision that prompted Utgar's smile.

CARD TEXT:

Spoiler Alert!

GENERAL = UTGAR
PLANET = EBERRON
SPECIES = TROLL
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SAVAGE
PERSONALITY = TERRIFYING
SIZE/HEIGHT = HUGE 11

LIFE = 9

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 8
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 205

MULTI-ARM SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
Fo-To-Ki-Ro may use Multi-Arm Special Attack up to 4 times, he may not attack the same figure more than once per turn.

GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure you may remove 1 wound marker from his Army Card. If that figure was large of huge, you may remove 1 additional wound marker.

-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received

• DURGETH RAVAGERS: SAVAGE CRY
  As a Savage Hero Fo-To-Ki-Ro can take a turn with the Durgeth Ravager's Savage War Cry power.
  
• - ORNAK : Red Flag of Fury
  As a unique hero that follows Utgar, Fo-To-Ki-Ro may benefit from Ornak’s RED FLAG OF FURY activation synergy.
  

Recently did some good work on this guy and I feel like he is getting closer so I wanted to check in and see if anyone had thoughts on this.

[NecroBlade]

A couple relatively simple but interesting powers. Here's an attempt a cleaner, yet more Heroscape-y wording.

Multi-Arm Assault
The first time Fo-To-Ki-Ro attacks each turn, you may add 6 attack dice. If you do not, after attacking Fo-To-Ki-Ro may attack up to 3 additional times. Fo-To-Ki-Ro cannot attack the same figure more than once per turn.

Gobble and Graft
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure* you may remove 1 wound marker from his Army Card. If that figure was large of huge, you may remove 1 additional wound marker.

*"Unit" is not a term used on any cards. The term is "figure".

[Shiftrex]

Ah yes, I edited this out later this afternoon. I tend to use other words when I'm doing stuff late at night and forget lol.

Thanks for the language tune up!