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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #121  
Old April 24th, 2020, 05:22 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

@Arch-vile @japes @johnny139 @Lord Pyre @Soundwarp SG-1 @tcglkn
@Yodaking

Just pinging all the heroes here. After reviewing results and talking with testers, there seems to be a general impression that we could go either 8 spaces with no clear sight restriction, or 10 spaces with it. So, wanted to open that up to preferences there before the final test is run to lock in and confirm if we're good.

A - 8 spaces, no sight needed
B - 10 spaces, sight needed
C - No preference

I think either of those approaches are fine, and based on the tests, this is a much more manageable approach that doesn't inhibit design space as much, and is in a space (losing initiative) that we have more of a fresh start when it comes to testing him with things.
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  #122  
Old April 24th, 2020, 05:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

C for me
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  #123  
Old April 24th, 2020, 05:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

C for me
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  #124  
Old April 24th, 2020, 05:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

Both work for me as well. C

*edit* changing my vote to B

Last edited by Yodaking; April 24th, 2020 at 07:47 PM.
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  #125  
Old April 24th, 2020, 05:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

What are the pro's and cons of each...as in what's the arguments being made for them.

Short condensed version please.

My immediate thought was that a sight restriction makes sense but I'm not sure the context here.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #126  
Old April 24th, 2020, 06:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

I think the sight restriction made it almost too difficult to get value from it but the pros are you can't dump all the Fan 4's OMs on Invisible Woman for a round.
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  #127  
Old April 24th, 2020, 06:25 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
What are the pro's and cons of each...as in what's the arguments being made for them.

Short condensed version please.

My immediate thought was that a sight restriction makes sense but I'm not sure the context here.
I mean I can give the thoughts, obviously whether they are Pros/Cons technically depends on if you are playing or against Joker.

Sight
Forces him to be more active.
Cuts out using the Batmobile as a tank for him (far better expenditures of XXX points exist to protect Joker IMO)
Can't pass markers to/from figures with intangibility/tiny stealth etc. (Though I have concerns if you're bringing up the very cheap tiny stealth folks early game game against Joker)
Can't hide him behind a wall

No sight
Don't have to worry about specific positioning quite as much.
Can use closed vehicles (partial cover vehicles are available regardless)
No concern with checking clear sight related abilities, isn't weirdly excluded from a small subset of figures
Can hide behind LOS blockers
Was how the design originally functioned.

I personally do lean slightly toward no sight, mostly for the last reason. It doesn't feel like a necessary addition and is a change from the original.

Also because of the common units that would be coming close to him that would have the intangibility/invisibility immunity, one is Martian Manhunter (who's overall usability isn't going to be killed by this) and Invisible Woman (the one who keeps getting brought up). And I don't think we need an extra nerf on him because of concerns with one common figure.

Last edited by LordVenoc; April 24th, 2020 at 07:14 PM.
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  #128  
Old April 24th, 2020, 07:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

My personal leaning towards sight is just because the VDO system (a) isn’t super-developed yet and (b) hasn’t been playtested with Joker at all. I agree with LV that spending ### points* on the Batmobile might not be the best value with Joker right now, but what if we do another VDO that offers the same attributes* for cheaper? Is Joker going to he a cost driver/limit design space there? Chucking Quentin Quire in the Batmobile already felt pretty strong, how does that feel when you throw Joker in as well?

Not making the argument that it’s super-broken or anything, just pointing out that we don’t actually know. I’d hate to see us go through all this work and still see Joker limiting/warping design space. I’m always open to trying it out after Coulson.

*Purposefully vague cause unreleased unit.
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  #129  
Old April 24th, 2020, 07:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

I think B's more thematic and interesting from a gameplay perspective, so I'd go with that, unless it's likely to make him tricky to play with future urban terrain?


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  #130  
Old April 24th, 2020, 07:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

Hmm...now that you break it all down I'm leaning towards requiring sight. I'd rather not have to revisit this design again and I suspect someone will one day make a Tank you could have him drive around.
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  #131  
Old April 24th, 2020, 07:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

Time for the Joker Mobile.
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  #132  
Old April 24th, 2020, 07:54 PM
LordVenoc LordVenoc is offline
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Re: The Book of Joker (I) - Reevaluation Public Testing Phas

Yeah, I REALLY don't think he's going to be the sole design affecting the full cover vehicles realm of design. And those things would just be able to tested with him. If you're hoping we will get to a place where we never have to ever think about Joker in a test, we are long past that tree to be barking up it. Regardless, he's going to be able to use vehicles to protect himself. Its just whether he A) has more options and B) if people can hide from him in those enclosed vehicles.
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