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  #601  
Old January 31st, 2011, 04:14 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Are those really only 7 tall? They look huge.
Ponderous is a cool power.
These guys look more like Unique Heroes to me ... but maybe that's just what I'm used to from Heroscape figures that size. Nothing says you can't expand or alter the aesthetic.

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  #602  
Old January 31st, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I really like Ponderous - a thematic, novel, simple power like robbdaman's Fetid - but I'm going to have to give this one some thought.

They look *really* big for squad figures...

*sigh*

I'll have to think about this one.

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  #603  
Old January 31st, 2011, 04:20 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

1Mmirg, it's very good to have people in this project who are inclined to say no. There's no question that these guys stretch some boundaries - certainly when compared to the other two customs I have up for review. I wouldn't take it personally if this one falls short because of your vote.

I won't really dispute your point A (which is simply your opinion which you are perfectly entitled to) or your point B (a concern that I definitely share). I'll address the other two, though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg View Post
C) Cost. I do trust you, but I really find it hard to believe that these guys cost the same as the Templar Knights. These guys seem really sweet. Playtesting will tell this, but I worry about this cost.
Yes, they are much, much better than the Templar Knights. But the Templar Knights, frankly, aren't very good.*

There isn't really anything to directly compare these guys to, because as I said, we don't have any ranged commons with 5 defense. However, they cost twice as much as stingers, and I don't think they are really worth twice as much in isolation*. They also really need repulsors to take advantage of their powers, and repulsors are another figure that really struggles to earn its points* (unless facing an all-soulborg opponent).

* comments about relative worth of figures assume 1v1 double-blind prebuilt armies playing on BoV-style maps. I think this is a reasonable way to approach the pricing of most figures, provided we acknowledge that this is far from the only way to play the game.

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Originally Posted by 1Mmirg View Post
D) I'm a little confused on the LOS and the Lob thing. Why use LOS from another Jandar-borg, if you are Lobbing anyway? Maybe I need to review the rules, but that seems strange.
Powers with lob still require line of sight unless they specifically state that they don't (as with Grenade Special Attack). In this case, the power specifically allows for an alternative LoS.

Of course, a power with Lob that required normal line of sight would be no different than not having Lob at all, but I'm following the precedent of our only current lobbing attack.
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  #604  
Old January 31st, 2011, 04:26 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'd echo dok in that the Templar aren't really a good squad to compare anything to when you're talking about Point cost. They just aren't worth their points. Ever.

If you're trying to compare them to something, then I'd think along the lines of Protectors of Ullar or something (the only other expensive ranged common I can think of other than Snipers).

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  #605  
Old January 31st, 2011, 04:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Are those really only 7 tall? They look huge.
tcglkn's picture has them next to a "yardstick" that clearly shows their height. I have done the same thing (put them next to a stack of 2-hexers) and that's how I came up with the height.

As I said, they are very similar to Torin in size/bulk. Feral Trolls are also about the same size. Dumutefs are a bit lankier but also comparable. The OP is smaller; the Frost Giant is bigger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Ah, so we have our first potential C3V/SoV figure intersection, then? I was wondering if the run on that figure was fueled by anything in particular.

I did suggest that figure to C3V in the first place. Fair's fair.
Actually, I found that figure weeks before C3V existed but that doesn't matter really.
True. It's not surprising that two people both thought this was a great candidate for a Heroscape custom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
What does is availability of the figure
Also true. You C3V guys should stop buying them up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by robbdaman View Post
including the need for rebasing large figures.
This is really a non-issue. Unlike the beveled bases, which are pretty tough to make unless you have the right tools, just about anyone can make D3-style large bases. I made a bunch of bases just by printing the Heroscape base pattern on photo paper, gluing it on some other bases I had (including the ones I had from debasing Zombie Hulks ), and trimming them down to the right size with some scissors. You could make a perfectly good D3 base just by gluing the base pattern on a standard ceramic poker chip (yes, they're the right size).
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  #606  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Dok, does that mini have moveable joints? Is that what's going on there with the different poses of the same sculpt?

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  #607  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:25 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Dok, does that mini have moveable joints? Is that what's going on there with the different poses of the same sculpt?
Yes.
I have one and I have enjoyed experimenting with different menacing poses.
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  #608  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:42 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Harrummmm. Errr, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Off the top of my head I think a TD would have to House Rule that a fig with moveable parts couldn't be manipulated once dice start rolling. That would solve a potential problem before it became one.

Anyway. Dok, I think I mentioned to you in your own thread that "instead" appears to be two words instead of one, and that still apears to be the case.

My eyes could be deceiving me, I'm not 100% sure having studied it as closely as I can.

I procrastinate voting yet again...

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  #609  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:45 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by killercactus View Post
I'd echo dok in that the Templar aren't really a good squad to compare anything to when you're talking about Point cost. They just aren't worth their points. Ever.

If you're trying to compare them to something, then I'd think along the lines of Protectors of Ullar or something (the only other expensive ranged common I can think of other than Snipers).
While I agree that the Templar are not the best comparison (and I didn't make it seriously--they were just the easiest hyperbolic example ).Though , they are still part of the canon. I don't want us to see everything priced in the SoV meant to compete with Q9, either.

It was a bad comparison choice on my part, either way. They seem underpriced, but I'm more concerned with the other issues and with what could be tough availability. I'd really like these guys a lot more as a Unique Squad (then their price would be a lot stronger, btw) or as some kind of Hero.

The sculpt does move, though this is as close to "same sculpt" as I'd ever want to go--and still makes me uncomfortable as well.

Anyhow, I'm going to vote NO to review. Sorry, dok. (Just two candidates for you, right now, on your Mmirg-allowance, dok .)

This is a great unit, but there is just enough going on with this unit, as it stands, that makes me feel like it isn't the right fit for Scape as I understand it. (I may be missing a gem here, but that's my vote, fwiw.)
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  #610  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Of course, a power with Lob that required normal line of sight would be no different than not having Lob at all, but I'm following the precedent of our only current lobbing attack.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't lob represent the maximum height the attack can reach? The book isn't really 100% on it, and searching lob brought up nothing... But I do believe that lob is height restriction as well, even with LoS, because thinking realistically you can only launch an object so high.

EDIT, downloaded and checked the D&D book (don't have a copy myself) and this IS in fact how they define it. Lob is the MAXIMUM height an attack can reach, regardless of LoS. If a figure has lob 12, it cannot attack a figure who's base is +12 levels higher.

Sometimes, you just have to start over.

Last edited by krysto2002; January 31st, 2011 at 05:57 PM.
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  #611  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:57 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Harrummmm. Errr, I'm not sure how I feel about that. Off the top of my head I think a TD would have to House Rule that a fig with moveable parts couldn't be manipulated once dice start rolling. That would solve a potential problem before it became one.
As I mentioned in the nominating post, I'm suggesting three specific poses for each squad's worth that are on the board, and yes, I would suggest that you can't switch a figure from one pose to another mid-game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Anyway. Dok, I think I mentioned to you in your own thread that "instead" appears to be two words instead of one, and that still apears to be the case.
Heh. You probably did. I think I've been told that five or six times between various cards. It's my favorite typo. (Although I like to point out that "in stead" is technically acceptable usage.)

Anyway, fixed now. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krysto2002 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Of course, a power with Lob that required normal line of sight would be no different than not having Lob at all, but I'm following the precedent of our only current lobbing attack.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't lob represent the maximum height the attack can reach? The book isn't really 100% on it, and searching lob brought up nothing...
That's correct. There's a section in the RotV rule book that covers the grenades. The grenades can only go 12 levels up, either to attack a figure or to clear an obstacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krysto2002 View Post
But I do believe that lob is height restriction as well, even with LoS, because thinking realistically you can only launch an object so high.
That's right, good point. So there would be some significance to a lob value even if the attack required LoS.
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  #612  
Old January 31st, 2011, 05:58 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Check my previous edit, I confirmed this in the MS3 rulebook which I JUST downloaded.

Sometimes, you just have to start over.
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