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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #13  
Old November 19th, 2010, 04:16 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

I like Bat's Mimic there, Phantom Walk, and Stealth Leap. Very ninja-esque and still has that photo-reflex thing.

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  #14  
Old November 19th, 2010, 06:47 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

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Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
I like Bat's Mimic there, Phantom Walk, and Stealth Leap. Very ninja-esque and still has that photo-reflex thing.
That's fine too and certainly simple. How high should Stealth Leap let her jump?

As long as people don't have a problem with her getting a move of 12 from Flash, and attack of 8 from Thor or a defense of 8 from Thor.

I've never seen her in comics, so I haven't seen what she can do.

She's listed as an Olympic Level athlete, and has nothing superhuman physically about her. Just to be sure, since most or many non-superhuman heroes/villains are listed as Olympic Level athletes, but do we think her photographic reflexes grant her superhuman strength? Because whatever is done with Echo can be done with Taskmaster and he's always been limited to what he can physically repeat with his Olympic Level athleticism.

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Last edited by Hahma; November 19th, 2010 at 07:07 AM.
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  #15  
Old November 19th, 2010, 07:06 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

I don't like those high stats for her at all.... Again, I will say that the best thing I can think of or have heard for her was to just give her a few appropriate powers from other people's cards.

How much do we need to over think this one really? I mean its Echo. Give her a few physical powers that she uses often and model them directly off of cards that makes thematic sense. :day_called:
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  #16  
Old November 19th, 2010, 07:37 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

I think if she just has powers on the card then it isn't Echo, & I as a C3G customer would feel kind of cheated that we didn't do better to capture at least some resemblance of mimicry. I like Bats suggestion but I'm not sure about taking the range aspect.

What about Bats Mimic & a special attack that just allows her to use the normal attack she has mimicked, that way she would have the option to bypass some figure's defences. This will just give her the slight edge she would gain by mimicking somebody without overpowering her & without stacking unrelatable (not a real word) powers on her card.

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  #17  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:00 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

So would you be OK with her stealing Thor's attack of 8 and then making it even better as a Special Attack? I certainly am not.
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  #18  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:16 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
I don't like those high stats for her at all.... Again, I will say that the best thing I can think of or have heard for her was to just give her a few appropriate powers from other people's cards.

How much do we need to over think this one really? I mean its Echo. Give her a few physical powers that she uses often and model them directly off of cards that makes thematic sense. :day_called:
That would ignore her most iconic, and actually only, power. It would essentially make her like Super Skrull, who is a composite of other heroes. But that's not at all what her power is.

Look - stats, powers, it's never going to be thematic because of the restrictions of Heroscape. At some point, she's going to be able to do something that she wouldn't be able to do in the comics, and we're going to have to live with it.

I thought about limiting my version of Mimic to Human Unique Heroes, as that would exclude most of the powers people are concerned about, especially since we've designated figures as Mutate or Metahuman. However, that would also exclude some figures that she has iconically mimicked, like Daredevil.

I still think the best compromise is going to be limiting it to Vigilantes, and maybe 1-2 other classes.
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  #19  
Old November 19th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl View Post
Look - stats, powers, it's never going to be thematic because of the restrictions of Heroscape. At some point, she's going to be able to do something that she wouldn't be able to do in the comics, and we're going to have to live with it.
Why should we accept that? I won't. Now maybe my suggestion or Bats' suggestion isn't the "perfect" suggestion either, but if you are listening to the group right now, none of us are happy with her doing a plethora of powers that make no sense and are a total theme break.
Quote:
I still think the best compromise is going to be limiting it to Vigilantes, and maybe 1-2 other classes.
Like Moon Knight, or Batman and his Batarangs, or Robin and his Batgrapple, or Huntress and her crossbow, or Punisher and his rocket launcher, etc etc etc.

Realistically here, I think it is imperative for you to come to grips with the fact that the juice your drinking and serving, isn't anyone's brand but your own. Your compromising a theme fail for a theme win. You want her to have the themey things you want, and your willing to ignore all the theme fails that come with that.... I just can't ever sign off on something like that - C3G has higher standards.

Respectfully and honestly,
Griff
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  #20  
Old November 19th, 2010, 09:15 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl View Post
Look - stats, powers, it's never going to be thematic because of the restrictions of Heroscape. At some point, she's going to be able to do something that she wouldn't be able to do in the comics, and we're going to have to live with it.
Why should we accept that? I won't. Now maybe my suggestion or Bats' suggestion isn't the "perfect" suggestion either, but if you are listening to the group right now, none of us are happy with her doing a plethora of powers that make no sense and are a total theme break.
I already answered that, but I'll do it again. Because Heroscape mechanics don't distinguish between powers that are superhuman and those that aren't. Or between powers that require specialized equipment and those that don't. Ignoring powers altogether and going only with stats will also have similar problems. Doing neither won't represent her only power and won't feel like Echo. So something has to give. The only way to make her completely thematic would be to list out all figures and specific powers she can mimic, which I think we'd all agree would be ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffin View Post
Realistically here, I think it is imperative for you to come to grips with the fact that the juice your drinking and serving, isn't anyone's brand but your own. Your compromising a theme fail for a theme win. You want her to have the themey things you want, and your willing to ignore all the theme fails that come with that.... I just can't ever sign off on something like that - C3G has higher standards.

Respectfully and honestly,
Griff
If you don't want to hear my suggestions, then fine, use your idea.
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  #21  
Old November 19th, 2010, 09:48 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

I am not sure "MY" idea is the best we can do (I highly doubt it in fact).

This shouldn't be about what I can come up with, or what you or Bats can come up with, this project is about what "WE" can come up with as a group, and right now, "we" do not have an accord on any idea, and the OP seems to have the least support.
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  #22  
Old November 19th, 2010, 09:54 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Everyone take a deep breath.

We'll figure something out I'm sure. I knew her and Taskmaster wouldn't be easy, because like Absorbing Man, it's kind of difficult to represent the theme and get it to work mechanically.

It will have to be a compromise somewhere and like we've done before, we'll figure it out.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #23  
Old November 19th, 2010, 11:44 AM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Counter suggestion time!

MIMIC
After moving and before attacking, you may choose one Unique Hero figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Echo to Mimic. Echo may use the chosen figure's Move Number, Range Number, Attack Number, or Defense Number in place of her own for the remainder of the round. The number Echo chooses may not have a value higher than 7. Echo may only Mimic one of these numbers at a time.

How's that look with 7 as a limit? That could be toggled down to 6 if you guys think it's better, but I was trying to keep the power relatively useful without being overly powerful or too much of a theme stretch.
This one is a delicate balance for sure.
I like Spidey's idea of going with this and Stealth Leap (12 probably). If you have Stealth Leap, I don't think you need Phantom Walk. Also, I think she shouldn't have more than 2 powers on her card, ideally.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #24  
Old November 19th, 2010, 01:12 PM
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Re: Echo - Design Phase

Well the restriction of 7 certainly is better, I mean she already has a move of 6, so if the restriction was 6 then that wouldn't help her move any and a range of 6 is no big deal either. The attack and defense take some imagination, but we've been there before. I mean if she takes Superman's attack or defense of 7, she really isn't mimicking him at all because her body doesn't get as resilient as Supes and she doesn't get any added strength. He's not a martial artist, so it's not like she's learning his moves to get that nice attack.

We've suspended belief for the purpose of gameplay before, I mean DD gets a nasty attack when surrounded by a group of enemies and many others.

Stealth Leap 12 is kind of high for her to leap with normal non-super strength legs. Could she have Catwoman's climb which would give her real nice mobility and be more on a human strength level than with a huge leap. Catwoman can climb up a castle wall without a battlement if she starts adjacent to it. Echo would be able to do more than that if she had a move of 7 she mimicked. That could give her some of DD's acrobatic mobility to a degree but not his Radar Sense, as she shouldn't be able to mimic a Sense of any kind IMO. Heck, it would make her more DD like acrobatically than DD is because she would be able to use it any time and not with a d20 defensive roll.

If this were the way to go for Echo, I don't want it to be the template for Taskmaster's similar power. He carries ranged weapons and a shield all the time, so he wouldn't have to mimic someone to get added range and Cap like skills already with defending with and throwing shield. He has stored abilities, so he wouldn't only be able to use what he sees on an opponent's card on the battlefield.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; November 19th, 2010 at 01:23 PM.
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