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  #5173  
Old August 12th, 2021, 09:26 AM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
I don't see any issues with how the ARV is doing things. I've used several ARV maps in tourneys before. I wouldn't use all of them, true, but then I wouldn't use all of the BoV maps either. I'm completely unfamiliar with WoS.

(Somewhere I have a spreadsheet of all the BoV and ARV maps and which ones I like, don't like, and wouldn't use under any circumstances. )
Yeah, I don't see any issues with how the ARV does things either, but the submission and acceptance process is different than what WoS is proposing. The ARV process limits the maps that can come in - which again isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just different. The primary purpose of the ARV has been to encourage mapmaking, which I feel it has been successful at doing.

And that's awesome that you've used several of them, and that you enjoy them! I bet I can guess though which ones you wouldn't use under any circumstance...

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Last edited by Flash_19; August 12th, 2021 at 09:26 AM. Reason: Uncapped pillars anyone??? ;)
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  #5174  
Old August 12th, 2021, 10:57 AM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

I'm just coming back, but it would seem that excellent ARV maps would be nominated to BoV and/or WoS.

--

I'll be honest, for all the reasons given above by DadScaper, Necro, Flash, and many others, I am thinking that the BoV might move to Legacy status. This is a hard choice, but it might make sense.

If there is anyone who feels we still need the BoV, please speak up now.
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  #5175  
Old August 12th, 2021, 05:15 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

I would love to see this revived. I keep seeing comments about how the old BoV maps are "outdated" or not good for competitive play anymore. Can someone further explain what makes this the case? New custom units that have been created or just a general progression of certain playstyles? Or something else?

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  #5176  
Old August 12th, 2021, 05:43 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Great questions. Was thinking the same thing.
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  #5177  
Old August 12th, 2021, 05:43 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Many of the BoV maps can be abused by strong players in ways that weren’t adequately explored 10-15 years ago.

Some new units also break old maps, like single-space ranged flyers that weren’t around when Broken Skyline was inducted.
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  #5178  
Old August 12th, 2021, 05:45 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by happyjosiah View Post
Or something else?
Mostly people have gotten a lot better at both building maps (note that most 'yes' votes so far to induct BoV maps into WoS have been for maps later in the BoV's lifespan), and at playing the game competitively. As such, the flaws become readily apparent in a lot of maps that were accepted into the BoV at the time.


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Last edited by NecroBlade; August 12th, 2021 at 05:46 PM. Reason: t
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  #5179  
Old August 12th, 2021, 05:57 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

An enormous amount has been learned about HOW to create a competitive Heroscape map that's dynamic, balanced, and fun. The large majority of these things were just unheard of in 2006 when the BoV launched. The history of the BoV is a history of increasingly careful and tight standards as the community expectations for what a tournament map should be got more and more stringent.
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  #5180  
Old August 13th, 2021, 10:23 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Some new units also break old maps, like single-space ranged flyers that weren’t around when Broken Skyline was inducted.
I asked about this when the Protectors came out. Turns out they really did playtest them on Broken Skyline.

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  #5181  
Old August 15th, 2021, 01:01 AM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
(Somewhere I have a spreadsheet of all the BoV and ARV maps and which ones I like, don't like, and wouldn't use under any circumstances. )
:
:

And that's awesome that you've used several of them, and that you enjoy them! I bet I can guess though which ones you wouldn't use under any circumstance...
Well, I haven't been particularly shy about identifying 'em, that's for sure. But, to be clear, I'm not just talking about ARV: there are BoV maps that I refuse to use as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg View Post
I'm just coming back, but it would seem that excellent ARV maps would be nominated to BoV and/or WoS.
Well, okay ... a bit weird that that old BoV maps are just okay, but old ARV maps have to be approved by the BoV to be considered good. Obviously I have no affiliation with the ARV; it just struck me as odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vasel
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  #5182  
Old August 18th, 2021, 08:57 AM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg View Post
I'm just coming back, but it would seem that excellent ARV maps would be nominated to BoV and/or WoS.

--

I'll be honest, for all the reasons given above by DadScaper, Necro, Flash, and many others, I am thinking that the BoV might move to Legacy status. This is a hard choice, but it might make sense.

If there is anyone who feels we still need the BoV, please speak up now.
Considering the other map judging efforts out there (namely the WoS), I think that retiring the BoV (or just keeping it dormant) is the right course. Having too many judging systems just leads to confusion and dilution. I think the community is small enough still that a single map judging system is still all that is needed.

Since the WoS appears to have some nice momentum and is tackling largely the same goal as the BoV, it doesn't seem to make sense to crank up the BoV and do basically the same thing they are.

But that's just my thoughts.

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  #5183  
Old August 25th, 2021, 02:29 PM
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Re: Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

Thank you all for your posts and insights. Talking with the other active BoV judges, we agree that the BoV will remain dormant for now. If the need for it arises again, we will regroup and get to work.

For now, we will encourage and support the WoS, ARV, and other map-building efforts. It's great to see things active and strong maps being generated.
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