The Book of Civilians

[IAmBatman]

Do you enjoy using Deathreavers outside of scenarios? Because I think these guys will end up being suped up Deathreavers.

[GreyOwl]

Shouldn't civilians be weaker than Deathreavers, just thematically speaking, rather than being a suped up version of them?

[IAmBatman]

Well their normal stats are weaker than Deathreavers, and even with Strength in Numbers their defense is lower than Deathreavers (but their attack is higher) - that's a situational power, though.
I guess you could argue that Horde Movement and Disengage have about equal value.
So ... maybe not suped up Deathreavers, but similar to Deathreavers.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Do you enjoy using Deathreavers outside of scenarios? Because I think these guys will end up being suped up Deathreavers.

Yes, but I don't know that these guys would be suped up Deathreavers.

Originally Posted by GreyOwl

Shouldn't civilians be weaker than Deathreavers, just thematically speaking, rather than being a suped up version of them?

Probably shouldn't be better than Deathreavers, but shouldn't they be useful enough for someone to use them in a similar fashion, annoying your opponent.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Well their normal stats are weaker than Deathreavers, and even with Strength in Numbers their defense is lower than Deathreavers (but their attack is higher) - that's a situational power, though.
I guess you could argue that Horde Movement and Disengage have about equal value.
So ... maybe not suped up Deathreavers, but similar to Deathreavers.

Deathreavers can also move 6 vs. 4 of Civilians and climb higher. Also, having to have Civilians adjacent to each other for Strength In Numbers opens them up to all kinds of trouble when their opponent has attacks that hit all adjacent figures to targeted one. So it can be a double edged sword I guess.

[IAmBatman]

Fair enough - also, no Soulborg invulnerabilities. I think that Horde Movement more than makes up for their slowness. And it's nice that they can at least situationally attack with three dice.
I'd put them on about even footing with the Deathreavers right now, though, in terms of cost. They might be slightly less effective than the Deathreavers at 40 points, but that's OK, because the Deathreavers are A+ figures. I think the civilians will still be useful enough (i.e. annoying enough) to be drafted.

[GreyOwl]

Sounds good.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I think these guys will be a nice addition, and things like Civilian Hostages, Civilian Rioters, and Civilians inspiring heroes and having their backs can all be covered in scenarios where the different, narrow flavors of civilians can be better explored.

[NecroBlade]

So are the stats/powers at the beginning of the thread current? If so, wording suggestion:

Originally Posted by Hahma

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS
Each Civilian you control that is adjacent to one other human you control receives +1 to their Defense and Attack, for a maximum of +1.

Each Civilian adds 1 to its Attack and Defense values as long as it is adjacent to at least one other human.

And are we looking at 40 points instead of 30 for these guys? If you can Crowd Move/Panic them to height with a buddy, they're 3/4's which is actually very respectable for a squad!

[IAmBatman]

I think a bump of 40 is for sure - and playtesting may show them to be worth 50. But since the stat bumps are somewhat conditional and force them to cluster (making them more vulnerable to area attacks), I think that restores the balance somewhat.

[NecroBlade]

Oh I agree, it takes all three of their powers to get the effect, but they're reasonably formidable if you do. Being slow and either weak or grouped, though, 40 will probably end up being good.

[IAmBatman]

And I like them at 40 being the "rats" of SuperHeroScape. They probably won't be quite as annoying and effective, but that's OK. And I think it's a nice role for them.

[Hahma]

Points updated on first page.