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Architects of the Realms of Valhalla Discussion and presentation of the maps approved by the ARV.


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  #85  
Old September 23rd, 2018, 11:52 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

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Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I believe they're uncapped pillars. Not BoV legal, but ARV, following the footsteps of WoS, allows them.
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Originally Posted by TREX View Post
Yes they are uncapped castle walls. This makes for bigger ruins and LOS blockers for more build options. HOSS also practices this for BoSS maps.
Hmmm ... well, it's not only not BoV legal, but also not Heroscape legal.
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Originally Posted by Fortress of the Archkyrie Rule Book
Each Wall Section must have a Wall Walk or another Wall Section on top of it.
I mean, it's your group and you can do what you like, but I would be a bit leery about allowing terrain features specifically disallowed by the rules. Other examples of this would be allowing stacking of half-height tiles and allowing jungle pieces that are connected to only one other terrain piece.

I think it's also hard for VirtualScape to make this clear. It certainly wasn't clear to me when I was perusing the build instructions. So, you know ... just some food for thought.
I can't speak for the ARV, but as a map designer, I've asked myself, what purpose does this rule serve regarding the two issues you've brought up - the jungle pieces, and the wall sections.

The jungle pieces have a very practical reason for needing to be attached to two hexes. If not, they tip over and move when you try to place figures next to them.

The castle walls don't seem to be as apparent. I'm guessing the designers wanted to avoid the issue you brought up in your earlier post and decided to go with the rule they best thought would accomplish it. Meaning, they wanted to try and avoid situations where a figure might be up on a wall, but unable to engage another figure up on the wall because of a missing wall walk tile. That would obviously give ranged flying figures a huge advantage, because they could perch there and shoot away all day long.

In other words, I think the designers were trying to incorporate a rule that they felt would limit opportunities to create game breaking situations inflicted by the terrain. Maybe someone else has found a better reason for that rule that I haven't thought of, but that's the conclusion I've come to.

So, really, I would argue it comes down to the spirit of the law vs the letter of the law. I will say that from my perspective, using uncapped pillars increases the ability to create fun, balanced maps - so I'm really glad the ARV allows it.

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  #86  
Old September 24th, 2018, 11:29 PM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

Not sure how I missed this discussion... oops

As for the uncapped pillars, yes we went into this knowing that they were "technically" against the rulebook...but we also agreed with - as Flash_19 already mentioned - the "spirit of the law" and wanted to broaden the doors of creativity when it came to map building. We felt there was a lot of potential to be had in building competitive maps that way, otherwise you'd basically be removing Castle pillars entirely as a playable terrain piece. If that doesn't fly with you and your group, I can't say there's much to be done about it other than to make sure to check out the other maps we've got posted as there are still other really great maps.

In regards to the uploading of links and images @Xotli ....I agree. I've been meaning to do that and have kept forgetting to make that a priority. I have the means, I'll just need to take that project upon myself to locally host all those downloads here on the site.
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  #87  
Old October 4th, 2018, 05:23 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
I can't speak for the ARV, but as a map designer, I've asked myself, what purpose does this rule serve regarding the two issues you've brought up the jungle pieces, and the wall sections.

The jungle pieces have a very practical reason for needing to be attached to two hexes. If not, they tip over and move when you try to place figures next to them.

The castle walls don't seem to be as apparent. I'm guessing the designers wanted ...

In other words, I think the designers were trying ...
Hey, as a former member of the C3V, I have been involved in many discussions about what the designers wanted, and what they were trying to do. And, in the end, it always just comes down to whatever we wish were true ... I say that it's MORONIC that you can give a PLAGUE to a DOOR, so of course I argue that the designers never intended that particular interaction. And, if you come to my house for a game, you absolutely will not be giving the plague to MY castle door. But, if we're in a tournament, then I have to let you do it. Because those are the rules. Maybe I'm right and the designers never wanted that to work, never meant for it to work, and in fact are constantly lying awake at nights kicking themselves over allowing it to work, but the rules are clear, and the designers had plenty of opportunity to change them if they'd really really wanted to. They didn't. So we're stuck with it.

I'm sure I don't need to belabor the parallels to the uncapped castle wall situation.

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... otherwise you'd basically be removing Castle pillars entirely as a playable terrain piece.
Well, I wouldn't look at it that way. You're not removing anything. The designers did that when they made the rules. LIS above: they didn't have to make the rules that way. But they did. So there you are. Anyhow, there's all sorts of reasons why castle sets don't get much play in tourney maps: the walls are too tall, the doors are a giant PITA, etc. Again, that's not really a thing you or I or anyone is doing: that's just the way tourney maps work. Personally, I think tourney maps are boring and wish we didn't have to use them. But, if you're specifically doing a tourney ... well, you don't have but so many options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
If that doesn't fly with you and your group, I can't say there's much to be done about it other than to make sure to check out the other maps we've got posted as there are still other really great maps.
Oh, absolutely. We used 2 last year, and we'll use another 2 this year.

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
In regards to the uploading of links and images @Xotli ....I agree. I've been meaning to do that and have kept forgetting to make that a priority. I have the means, I'll just need to take that project upon myself to locally host all those downloads here on the site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vasel
And I've seen some people on the Internet seem to have a problem with mixing this with the rest of the game, which makes no sense to me, because, I mean, you already are having knights fight robots, how is throwing Spider-Man into the mix that big of a deal?
You should not read this blog.

Why I Left the C3V
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  #88  
Old October 4th, 2018, 08:06 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

Uncapped pillars are a valuable resource in map design, imho. But that’s just mho.

Just as people are free to play without C3V units, they are free to insist upon capped pillars. Their house, their rules. Especially in a tournament setting, I would want the resource of uncapped pillars, though.

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  #89  
Old October 4th, 2018, 10:08 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

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Originally Posted by Xotli View Post
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
... otherwise you'd basically be removing Castle pillars entirely as a playable terrain piece.
Well, I wouldn't look at it that way. You're not removing anything. The designers did that when they made the rules. LIS above: they didn't have to make the rules that way. But they did. So there you are. Anyhow, there's all sorts of reasons why castle sets don't get much play in tourney maps: the walls are too tall, the doors are a giant PITA, etc. Again, that's not really a thing you or I or anyone is doing: that's just the way tourney maps work. Personally, I think tourney maps are boring and wish we didn't have to use them. But, if you're specifically doing a tourney ... well, you don't have but so many options.
FWIW, GenCon map pool has used uncapped pillars since at least 4 years ago, iirc (Vestige and Remains of Clionesia jump to mind). If it's good enough for MM, it's good enough for me. Uncapped pillars make excellent LOS blockers in tourney maps, and saying that castle sets don't see much use in tourney play isn't exactly true.
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  #90  
Old October 4th, 2018, 11:46 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

The uncapped castle sets doesn't bother me at all.

There's actually another "rule" in the castle rulebook that makes Broken Skyline and a few other BoV Maps "tournament illegal" with the same logic in mind as uncapped castle ban. You aren't allowed to have castle pillars hanging off the map (not placed on another hex) and Broken Skyline has castle pillars with no hex beneath them.

I think for a castle set that so obviously doesn't fit the tournament style of mapmaking it's okay to modify the rules within reason to make it usable
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  #91  
Old October 20th, 2018, 12:35 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

Just popping in more often these days after several years away... and wanted to say how glad I am to see something like this ARV, not only active, but apparently flourishing. More power to you fine folks! Let's hear it for 'Scape cartography!


(P.S. I love me some uncapped pillars. That's why our WoS, in its relatively brief span, allowed them. And why Remains of Clionesia was the first map we inducted.)
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  #92  
Old October 20th, 2018, 03:15 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhon2222 View Post
Just popping in more often these days after several years away... and wanted to say how glad I am to see something like this ARV, not only active, but apparently flourishing. More power to you fine folks! Let's hear it for 'Scape cartography!


(P.S. I love me some uncapped pillars. That's why our WoS, in its relatively brief span, allowed them. And why Remains of Clionesia was the first map we inducted.)
Welcome back! Looking forward to what you have up your sleeve for our next contest
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  #93  
Old December 4th, 2018, 11:34 PM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

When IS the next contest?!
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  #94  
Old December 5th, 2018, 12:49 AM
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Re: Welcome to the ARV!

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Originally Posted by Typhon2222 View Post
When IS the next contest?!
Should be around February. Going forward I think our plan is to do 2 a year, so we can make sure we have enough time to playtest.
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