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  #25  
Old November 29th, 2018, 04:19 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

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Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
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What do you mean by "slots"?

Are you saying that Hive Supremacy adds 115 points to a card's cost? If so, that's absurdly high.
I am not that certain that it costs that much alone. The Custom Heroscape consists of only 3 special powers like this:

You might fit a Rank 3 skill and a Rank 1 skill, but it will cost more points like 250 or something. It depends on what you want use more of.
I don't mean to be rude, but I can't construct any coherent meaning from the words you wrote. Could you try explaining it another way?
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  #26  
Old November 29th, 2018, 04:38 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
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Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
What do you mean by "slots"?

Are you saying that Hive Supremacy adds 115 points to a card's cost? If so, that's absurdly high.
I am not that certain that it costs that much alone. The Custom Heroscape consists of only 3 special powers like this:

You might fit a Rank 3 skill and a Rank 1 skill, but it will cost more points like 250 or something. It depends on what you want use more of.
I don't mean to be rude, but I can't construct any coherent meaning from the words you wrote. Could you try explaining it another way?
There are 4 slots for the special powers, but only 3 powers for the C3V or SoV is allowed. You might be seeing a expensive hero like Bramcephys. When it comes to great power, comes great responsibility via more points. This thread is still a work in progress, nothing is solid yet.
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  #27  
Old November 29th, 2018, 04:41 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

The only classic figure with 4 powers is Sonya Esenwein.
The only C3V figure with 4 powers is the Zettian Deathwings.

Avoiding 4 powers isn't mandatory, it's just usually a good idea.
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  #28  
Old November 29th, 2018, 05:36 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
The only classic figure with 4 powers is Sonya Esenwein.
The only C3V figure with 4 powers is the Zettian Deathwings.

Avoiding 4 powers isn't mandatory, it's just usually a good idea.
I think that using only 3 powers might provide more tactics. You might want to use Utility, special powers that provide more movement, bonding with heroes, effect the D20 / Offensive are powers that do damage or abilities that increase attack dice / Defensive are powers that protect you from harm or increase defense dice. When it comes to using only 3 powers, think of Utility, Offensive and Defensive for special powers.
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  #29  
Old November 29th, 2018, 05:39 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

If you give all (or most) of your customs an offensive power, a defensive power, and a utility power, they will all turn out similar, and most likely over-designed.

It's best to start with a picture of what you want a unit to do, and what kind of role it will play in an army. Then give it powers that make it fit that role.
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  #30  
Old November 29th, 2018, 05:49 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Sort of like sculpting a diamond. The source material will guide you as to what it wants to be.

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  #31  
Old November 30th, 2018, 06:38 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

You can ignore the other pages, from now on I will put special powers in tiers.

Tier 1 = 20 points

Tier 1.5 = 40 points

Tier 2 = 60 points

Tier 2.5 = 80 points

Tier 3 = 100 points

Tier 3.5 = 120 points

Tier 4 = 140 points

Tier 4.5 = 160 points

Tier 5 = 180 points

It depends on what tier you think your special power falls under.

This excludes super heroscape and classic heroscape.

Last edited by Heroscaper 101; November 30th, 2018 at 07:46 PM.
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  #32  
Old November 30th, 2018, 07:00 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
You can ignore the other pages, from now on I will put special powers in tiers.

Tier 1 = 20 points

Tier 2 = 60 points

Tier 3 = 100 points

Tier 4 = 140 points

Tier 5 = 180 points

It depends on what tier you think your special power falls under.

This excludes super heroscape and classic heroscape.
And how do you determine which tier your power falls in?
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  #33  
Old November 30th, 2018, 07:46 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
You can ignore the other pages, from now on I will put special powers in tiers.

Tier 1 = 20 points

Tier 1.5 = 40 points

Tier 2 = 60 points

Tier 2.5 = 80 points

Tier 3 = 100 points

Tier 3.5 = 120 points

Tier 4 = 140 points

Tier 4.5 = 160 points

Tier 5 = 180 points

It depends on what tier you think your special power falls under.

This excludes super heroscape and classic heroscape.
And how do you determine which tier your power falls in?
How much points do you think a normal Disengage special power, this is normal because special powers like phantom walk or stealth flying and other things.
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  #34  
Old November 30th, 2018, 08:40 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
You can ignore the other pages, from now on I will put special powers in tiers.

Tier 1 = 20 points

Tier 1.5 = 40 points

Tier 2 = 60 points

Tier 2.5 = 80 points

Tier 3 = 100 points

Tier 3.5 = 120 points

Tier 4 = 140 points

Tier 4.5 = 160 points

Tier 5 = 180 points

It depends on what tier you think your special power falls under.

This excludes super heroscape and classic heroscape.
And how do you determine which tier your power falls in?
How much points do you think a normal Disengage special power, this is normal because special powers like phantom walk or stealth flying and other things.
Wow, this seems ambitious... Good luck!

This was one alley that I never wanted to walk down. In my opinion, it sounds way too hard to say "ability X should cost Y points" because that has to almost certainly be gauged based on every other aspect of the card.

Consider the Feral Troll with the regenerate ability: How much do you think that ability is worth out of his total point cost? 30 points?

So, if you take the Troll's regenerate and put it on a card like Major Q9 or almost any of the dragons, it seems frighteningly powerful. Regenerate is probably more valuable than just a 30 point bump on any of these units, vs something like the Feral Troll with his defense of 1.

There's probably a hundred examples like this within classic alone... I can't even fathom the sheer number crunching that would have to be done to even get any reasonable formula that would be balanced enough to even suggest "to add disengage to your figure, add X points to their cost for every Y stat(s) that they have."

Last edited by Unhinged Manchild; November 30th, 2018 at 08:57 PM.
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  #35  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 09:34 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: Special Power Calculator

Tier 0 = 0 - 5 points

Tier 0.5 10 - 15 points

Tier 1 = 20 - 35 points

Tier 1.5 = 40 - 65 points

Tier 2 = 60 - 75 points

Tier 2.5 = 80 - 95 points

Tier 3 = 100 - 115 points

Tier 3.5 = 120 - 135 points

Tier 4 = 140 - 155 points

Tier 4.5 = 160 - 175 points

Tier 5 = 180 - 195 points

Tier 6 = 200 - ? points

I am not sure what any special power costs, what do you think they cost. This is for the point value of special powers individually.
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  #36  
Old December 2nd, 2018, 10:58 PM
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Re: Special Power Calculator

H101, I am going to echo what everyone else has been saying. I think it is going to be near impossible to make a system where you can say "this power is worth this many points."

The reason we're saying that is because powers interact with every other part of the card.

For example, let's look at Double Attack. Double Attack on a Hero is a good power. It gives you an extra attack per turn, that's great! But on a squad of 4, it gives you 4 whole extra attacks every turn. So Double Attack, the same exact power, is worth way more on that squad's card than on the hero's card. So any price you give Double Attack is going to have to change based on what kind of card it is on, Hero or Squad.

And it doesn't end there. Powers can also interact with other powers. Say there's a power that add dice to your attack. That's pretty good on most units. Who is going to turn down more dice? But if you combine that with Deadly Shot or Deadly Strike, that ability doubles in usefulness! So you have to consider how each power interacts with the others as well.

Those are just two examples. To truly guess how much a power is worth, you have to consider how that power interacts with everything else; the stats, other powers, sometimes even other units. Because of that, I don't think assigning a flat point value to each special power is ever going to really work. Even if you look at other point calculators that have "power tiers" they usually leave it up to the designer to assess how much each power on their card is worth.

Nobody is saying you can't create a power calculator, but most people are saying it will probably not be accurate with the way you are doing it. Maybe it would be better to focus your efforts elsewhere, like commenting on other people's custom threads or working on creating completed, playtested customs.
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