Frenzy question

[markwars]

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

All figures that come from multiples of that Army Card are 'on your chosen Army Card' when you are only using a single card. I have not seen anything in the rules or FAQ that even implies you are limited to attacking with the specific figures that you have moved.

Edit: one little mouse twitch, and I get extra quote codes...

Edit the second: if no one can come up with an official statement to negate this, I would be interested in Revdyer's opinion as an English-language guru.

Edit the third: now look what you've done! We're entertaining markwars!

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by Marduk

How so?

Its common knowledge not to mention common sense.

Read the Zombie's card. Why would they make a big deal by adding the fact that you can move 6 and attack with any 3 figures if you could already attack with any 3 figures?

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by netherspirit

Its common knowledge not to mention common sense.

According to what the FAQ says, you may then attack with any or all figures on your chosen Army Card. It does *not* say "you may then attack with the figures you just moved" or any variation on that.

Claiming 'common knowledge' is not a valid argument; clearly it is not common knowledge. As for common sense, that is also not a valid argument here - we are in the Official Rules & FAQ's section. I don't mind if the official ruling is otherwise, but if there is no official ruling I think we should seek one. Besides, common sense says you should be able to attack with figures other than those you moved - that keeps the balance from tilting even farther in favor of ranged units.

Consider, if I move ranged units up from the back area, they are much more likely to be able to attack someone than is a squad of melee troops. If, however, I can attack with different figures, I can move up reinforcements towards the front lines while still attacking the enemy my other figures (from the same squad) are engaged with. Clearly, your interpretation (which I believe does not conform to standard usages of English) would favor ranged squads, while mine favors melee squads. Which is better for the game? Of course this only applies to common squads - both interpretations have the same result when applied to a unique squad.

In future, I recommend you come up with more than "No, that's wrong." At least give a reason or put up a link to an official ruling, or even a link to a lengthy thread arguing it out.

Edit:

Read the Zombie's card. Why would they make a big deal by adding the fact that you can move 6 and attack with any 3 figures if you could already attack with any 3 figures?

To emphasize the FAQ ruling? To avoid comparisons with the drones that would have people attacking with more than three at a time? Because their rulings are not always consistent?

Edit the second:

Since I appear to be the one trying to overthrow the establishment, I will put the question to Hasbro myself. After I compose it I will post it here for competing arguments to send along.

[Will T]

Wow this would be almost as big as when Galileo figured out the whole Earth goes around the Sun thing.

[Aldin]

Marduk - it's a bit of a funny technicality, but you only get to choose one army card. So even with commons you're limited to the units on that card. Moving a common unit "assigns" it to that card for that turn and limits the number of available units to pick from for combat to the ones that moved + any number of others up to the limit of a single card.

Hope that helps.

~Aldin, who got here late today

[Marduk]

Originally Posted by Aldin

Marduk - it's a bit of a funny technicality, but you only get to choose one army card. So even with commons you're limited to the units on that card. Moving a common unit "assigns" it to that card for that turn and limits the number of available units to pick from for combat to the ones that moved + any number of others up to the limit of a single card.

That does seem to be the common opinion, however it is not what the rules and FAQ say. Believe me, if I could have found that anywhere I would not have brought this up in the first place.

So, here is my draft of the question I will send to Hasbro; reasoned opinions and citations for or against are welcome.

----------

When using multiples of a common squad, are you limited to attacking only with figures you moved (or could have moved, if you move fewer than the limit), or can you attack with any figures on the Army Card? From the top FAQ ruling under Movement Rules, I believe you can attack with any of the figures:

"Does each individual member of the squad move and attack before the next one, or do they all move, then all attack in turn? First you may move any or all figures on your chosen Army Card, if you want to. Then after all desired movement, you may then attack with any or all figures on your chosen Army Card." [emphasis mine]

I believe the wording of this ruling is key, combined with the 'single card' rule for using multiples of the same common card. The dissenting opinion has been expressed as "Moving a common unit 'assigns' it to that card for that turn and limits the number of available units to pick from for combat to the ones that moved + any number of others up to the limit of a single card." Also cited is the Horde Movement power on the Zombies of Morindan card, in particular the last part of the final sentence:

"You may attack with any 3 Zombies of Morindan, even Zombies of Morindan that you did not move this turn." [emphasis theirs]

The dissenters feel that this final phrase implies a special exemption for the Zombies, while I feel that it was added both to emphasize the earlier FAQ ruling and to avoid confusion with the swarming power of the Marro Drones.

My interpretation favors melee units. For example, by the more limited interpretation a ranged unit moving up from the back area would have a much greater chance of attacking (due to having range) than would a melee unit (which has to move to engagement to attack). By my interpretation you would be able to move reinforcements towards the front, and yet still be able to attack any figures you were already engaged with on the front lines with other figures of the 'same' squad. Naturally, unique squads would be unaffected - both interpretations would result in the same outcome for a unique squad.

[dnutt99]

Aldin is right. Whenever an army card is activated, you are limited to activate the number of figures belonging to that card.
Whether you:
-move all of the and don't attack
-move some of your units and attack with others
-attack with all available units
(or any combination of moving and attacking)
you can only take these actions with the number of figures assigned to that card. In the case of Archers it would be a max. of 3 figs. If you roll a successful frenzy, this is essentially a new turn giving you the option to reselct which 3 you will activate.

[Aldin]

Thanks dnutt, you nailed it

~Aldin, approvingly

[dnutt99]

Originally Posted by Marduk

That does seem to be the common opinion, however it is not what the rules and FAQ say. Believe me, if I could have found that anywhere I would not have brought this up in the first place.

Not to be a thorn in your side, really, there are a few rules that are not in the official FAQ and even official rules made about figures that are not listed there either. This is the only game I've ever seen where rules are either being added, editted, and/or need further explanation given when each expansion is released.

It's not a bad thing. We all just see different things at different times or interpret things differently. I still second-guess myself a lot of times on things I already "know". Even better when someone points out something that you've never noticed before. A biggie for me was being told that if a Marro Warrior successfully clones, it must be placed adjacent on the same level. As long as I'd been playing and never caught that.

Your particular argument however, I would have to disagree with.

[Zarash]

Marduk wrote:
Does each individual member of the squad move and attack before the next one, or do they all move, then all attack in turn? First you may move any or all figures on your chosen Army Card, if you want to. Then after all desired movement, you may then attack with any or all figures on your chosen Army Card." [emphasis mine]


Last sentence you answered yourself it says card not cards. I would think that would mean how many every units was on the one card. It is in the singular form. Not trying to be a nitpicker or anything.

[netherspirit]

Originally Posted by Marduk

In future, I recommend you come up with more than "No, that's wrong." At least give a reason or put up a link to an official ruling, or even a link to a lengthy thread arguing it out.

Why do I need to come up with something more? I am (almost) always right when it comes to the rules. So when I tell you that you are wrong you can be pretty dang sure that you are in fact wrong. That's pretty much common knowledge too. :P

I have been around the game a long time and have a handy ability to remember the old rulings. I have read every thread ever created (here and at the HQ) that has asked a question about the rules, I have read every email response from Hasbro and now from WOTC. If you don't want to believe me when I tell you that you are wrong that's fine, and understandable, no one wants to be wrong, but in this case you're wasting your energy. A vast majority of the members know how this works, because its been asked before and answered from Hasbro, hence my common knowledge statement from earlier. It should be in the FAQ but it isn't. There are a few things that we know that aren't in the FAQ.

In the future, I recommend you don't try to argue a case for questions that have have been asked before and answered.

By all means send the question to WOTC maybe it will finally be put into the FAQ.