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  #61  
Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:26 PM
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Agatagary Agatagary is offline
 
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

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Originally Posted by RoninValentina View Post
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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
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Originally Posted by Agatagary View Post
Jungle gives a bonus only to melee troops, allowing them to get close enough to engage the ranged attackers.
That's not right. Jungle gives any small, medium, or large figure a defense bonus as long as they are targeted by a non-adjacent attack.
That's correct, but I think Agatagary's point is that because it only applies to non adjacent attacks, melee troops receive the benefit while ranged troops don't. Melee figures being shot at gain +1 defense. Ranged figures don't receive any bonus in return against melee- the melee guy only attacks from adjacency. In the case of shooter vs shooter, they both get a +1 defense, so there's no real advantage. Yes, this can be broken down, but I think the general point being made still stands.
That's correct. Thank you, RoninValentina, and I am sorry that my original post was so poorly phrased.

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  #62  
Old July 2nd, 2009, 11:28 PM
gwydion9 gwydion9 is offline
 
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

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Originally Posted by Uhurugu View Post
On a more strategic note, has anyone thought to use an army consisting of Minions, Zombies, and Nakitas/Raelin? In theory, the Minion's wings block the Zombies' heads from fire, until they can get close, while the girls provide bonus cover with smoke powder or bonus defense. Aside from the order-marker difficulties, it looks like fun to play (although not extremely practical). If anyone tries this, let me know how it goes.
I've tried zombies + Raelin, and while she does help, the problem that emerged was the zombies' very slow move. Most ranged units are considerably speedier, which means they can just fall back and keep sniping until they get a lucky roll, and the zombies can't move fast enough to pin them down. I haven't tried it, but I imagine nakitas + zombies would have the same problem.

I don't have minions, but I've toyed with the idea of doing something similar to what you propose using Charos. Turn him sideways and use him as a screen, or fly him right into your enemy starting area and use the chaos to give your zombies time to crawl across the board.

Last edited by gwydion9; July 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 PM.
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  #63  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 09:58 AM
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

Keys to all-melee armies:



1) Pick something with a definite advantage over range, and/or bonding. Examples:
KoW/Gilbert (MacDirk Recommended as well)
MacDirks & Alistair (Gilbert recommended also)
Steamroller
Vipers ( 's pick for all-melee vs melee competitive army)
Romans w/ any Warlord
Greeks with Marcus
Dwarves with Migol

Samurai IMHO are not pure melee as if you are doing all Samurai you ought to use Kato, if you use Kato, should be fielding ashigaru also. However, they work well as "specialist" units with the above.

2) Hit First
While you could stay near your start zone and take adventageous ground, striking when your enemy gets a little closer, I'm a fan of bum-rushing, especially when Fielding MacDirks. As figs die, bring up from the rear. Make the 4th start fighting before they get in position, and force them to decide to move to better ground or get WTF.

I guess it should be said don't take the fight to your opponent's start zone, as the ranged units will benefit from easily joining the fray.

3) Engage the threats

This is part of why rats are so popular; if figure A is next to your oppnent's ranged figure, he can't shoot at figure B. Putting Alistair next to Q9 keeps him from picking off the MacDirks. Try to rush to the Blastatrons if you can.

4) Cripple, Don't Wipe them Out
Your initial goal should be to reduce attacks. While this is going to be hard against an all-4th army, try to bring your opponent down to less than a squad of each army card, or at least less than a squad of each army card near the fight. Taking out 1 of the Krav or 1 of the Nakitas makes your opponent decide if 2 attacks are better than more of their weaker attacks...bringing them down to 1 figure can almost guarantee they won't put OMs on it.

5) Pile on the OMs
One you've started engaging the enemy, keep your productivity up as Jexik has explained in his articles; this means as close to 100% of the figures activated by an order marker should be attacking each turn. This is easier for ranged units to accomplish, but with higher average attack values melee units can be more effective; they just need to squeeze every possible attack out as early as possible.

6) Read the Order Markers

Hit the cards hardest that it looks like your opponent is going to use this round. Make him lose attacks and possibly even turns.

EDIT: updated to add the Dwarves as a Melee core possibility

Last edited by RageAngel; July 6th, 2009 at 11:17 AM.
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  #64  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 04:28 PM
Uhurugu Uhurugu is offline
 
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

I think, also, that your strategy should discriminate heavily based on which range your opponent is using. Many of the ranged squads lately blur the line between melee and range (such as the Mohicans, the 10th, and even the Stingers, which fight at such close range already [and fear dying so little] that they are almost a melee squad with a ranged option). Against opponents such as these, it is necessary to alter your strategy to prevent them from gaining their respective bonuses (for the MRT, for example, tracking down and killing Sad Arrow, for the Brits, waiting just out of range before charging to get the first strike. Great post, RageAngel; I would be interested, however, on seeing your thoughts in a situation where the opponent is sporting combined arms. Also, if you hear a clicking sound, that's my rep cannon . I'll get back in a few hours.
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  #65  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 09:18 PM
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RageAngel RageAngel is offline
 
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

I'm a big fan of playing your own game, and not tuning your build to counter other builds.

However, for opponents with mixed builds, your tactics (how you play) will need to be altered. After range, I believe speed and number of attacks are most important. You are still going to want to tie up your opponents units and deny them 100% of their attacks per army card. In a way, this is easier with melee than range as if you engage 3 of their figures with 1 of yours, they risk leaving engagements or must direct all attacks at your 1 figure.

It is important to seek out their ranged units, though, instead of simply committing all your forces to their melee screen. This is probably the biggest change over facing an all range squad.

Personally, I do like units like the Mohicans and the 10th for their usefulness as melee units with decent range.

One of my favorite armies is the Greeks, Marcus, and the 10th. The Greeks are faster than the KoW (with Marcus' speed bonus) with a little less defense (Even with the disciplined bonus), yet can spread out more than the Romans, and the 10th are great all-around units which can benefit from a speed and attack boost from Marcus. Parmenio is a plus as then Marcus can hang back with the 10th and Parmenio can serve as a 5th attacker, and maybe even manage to save a soldier during a game. You can even add the Kosuke Samurai for fast attacks, the Tagawa for heavy hitting and more "tying up" power, or the Izumi for cheap units to tie down opponents and still keep the disciplined bonus.

Perhaps part of the reason Charos is so expensive is his ability to tie down so many figures and last so long. For large point battles, he'd tremendously aid a MacDirk or Steamroller army (as well as Zombies), as he once he was placed you don't put any more order markers on him.
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  #66  
Old July 5th, 2009, 02:31 PM
Uhurugu Uhurugu is offline
 
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

You know, one of the most potent anti-range forces may be rats. Not rats with more powerful friends, just rats, as the core of the army. I was just looking at the thread on Deathreavers as an army, and it seems to me that the mechanical pests might have what it takes. I don't have that much personal experience with the rats, but I have used the Nagrubs to great effect before (they've eaten Deathwalkers, Jorhdawn, Emirroon, a bunch of other Elves, countless squaddies, and even Cyprien, once). Look at their pros and cons:

Life: They are dirt cheap at 10 points each, and thus can take many, many attacks before the opponent earns back his point's worth.

Move: They often get first strike, have disengage, and can call in buddies when shot at. They will, as so many of us have experienced, utterly swamp undefended range.

Range: Necessarily Melee

Attack: Pathetic. Several people in the other thread suggested bringing Taelord and Finn with them, which boosts their attack. On a map with glyphs, however, the rats don't need any boosters at all.

Defense: Ridiculous. They each have four defense and are easily concealable. They are obnoxiously hard to kill.

Most of this just recaps what everyone already knows, and a pure rat army will never win with the current start zones, but I am intrigued to see what rats + Tae would do to range. I'll try to play a game with them (after I get done with waves one and nine). On paper, the rats look pretty nice.
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  #67  
Old July 6th, 2009, 11:21 AM
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Re: ARM - Anti-range movement

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Originally Posted by Uhurugu View Post
You know, one of the most potent anti-range forces may be rats. Not rats with more powerful friends, just rats, as the core of the army.
Unfortunately the equally cheap Repulsors will be a big problem for the rats; we may see them added to other tourney armies just to deal with rats and Q9. Won't know until we actually start having tourneys...
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