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  #145  
Old February 19th, 2010, 10:10 PM
Uhurugu Uhurugu is offline
 
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

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Originally Posted by fomox View Post
Cyprien: He better kill the elementalist on his first try, or he's dead. (Well, he's already undead, but he'll be dead undead.) He's going to take 3 attacks of 4 and 3 searing rolls. Still, it might be worth risking it to cut off the head.
My question: is it three searing rolls. . . or six? (first engages, rolls, second engages and first two roll, third engages and all three roll)
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  #146  
Old February 19th, 2010, 10:12 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Uhurugu View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
Cyprien: He better kill the elementalist on his first try, or he's dead. (Well, he's already undead, but he'll be dead undead.) He's going to take 3 attacks of 4 and 3 searing rolls. Still, it might be worth risking it to cut off the head.
My question: is it three searing rolls. . . or six? (first engages, rolls, second engages and first two roll, third engages and all three roll)
You only get one roll no matter how many Elementals are adjacent, so only three.

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  #147  
Old February 19th, 2010, 10:50 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

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I'm surprised no one's said the Microcorp Agents would be good, not only do they outrange the Fire Elementals, but they love to hang out in the exact kind of terrain that the flames hate. Water.
It's a good thought. (Jexik mentioned them, too.) The thing with water suits is that the Micro rarely want to hang out in the water because it is rarely on height. Three attacks of two with height disadvantage isn't scaring anyone. If there is a lot of water, so the fire elementals would have to get on it to engage, then sure, but in that case, any army will have an easy time.

Of course the Micro could shoot from height, then run across water when/if the fire gets close.
Guess I didn't see his post that mentioned them, just his last one before mine on this thread. But they definitely have the advantage of 3 attacks of four with height and, of course, the water strength. I'd take them against the flame army any day.

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  #148  
Old February 19th, 2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
You only get one roll no matter how many Elementals are adjacent, so only three.
Thanks, that (plus some careful re-reading of the card) clarified it.

Moving back into theoryscape, how do you think this army will handle? It seems to me that they will be very slow, since you need to bring the elementalist plus all of your elementals, for fear of leaving them out of his range. At 4-5 move and approximately four rounds to shift the army, they seem like one of the slowest armies around. This would make them very unlikely to gain height, which, combined with their lack of range, makes it seem likely that they will be the ones bringing the fight to the other side. If so, it's possible that a melee army could wait out of threat range (and out of Kurrok's range) to consistently gain first strike. Losing first strike is less of an issue with this (elemental) army, since the figures are high defense and slow (so they expect to lose first strike already), and can be regenerated, and losing the ability to activate the engaged torchies is not such a big deal; the elemental player would be more concerned with getting more in. This potential first strike seems like one of the only advantages that a melee army would have against them, and I would be interested in playing, say, a knight army like that. Thoughts (aka does this seem feasible at all)?
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  #149  
Old February 20th, 2010, 04:50 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

Maybe this is just a newb thought, but aren't these elementals (as well as any common hero) very vulerable to Deadeye Dan's Ullar Enhanced Rifle? Their movement isn't that high, so it would probably take them two turns to move close enough to threaten Dan by then he should have gotten off a couple of shots with his UE Rifle.
Of course the best rememdy to Dan would be a squad like the Krav. But by the themselves the elemental would probably have a tough time with Dan.
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  #150  
Old February 20th, 2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

DED only gets one attack per turn, and he can only use his special attack or special power if he hasn't moved. Add to that the fact that the UER special attack only has a 50% chance to work, Sharpshooter much less, and he's not likely to survive long against elementals backed by Kurrok. Elementals by themselves, maybe.

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  #151  
Old February 20th, 2010, 04:59 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

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Originally Posted by Fencerjared View Post
DED only gets one attack per turn, and he can only use his special attack or special power if he hasn't moved. Add to that the fact that the UER special attack only has a 50% chance to work, Sharpshooter much less, and he's not likely to survive long against elementals backed by Kurrok. Elementals by themselves, maybe.
Right, I don't think he would stand a chance against Kurrok and the elementals, but for now I think against any common hero I don't think he is a bad choice. The key to his use would be perching him early in a spot that the enemy is going to have to approach. Common heroes typical have better than average defense, but UER makes that a mute point. He only needs to take out a couple to earn his points. Anything after that is gravy.
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  #152  
Old February 21st, 2010, 10:35 AM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

Continuing Jexik's theoryscape of whether or not the Fire army will become a serious threat, here's a few thoughts:

Wyvern: Why not just fly over these FE and grab Kurrok, maybe plunging him into hot lava while you're at it. I don't know if the Wyvern/lava discussion has been finalized, but I suspect that the Wyvern would be able to kill Kurrok in this fashion. Or, if my suspicions are correct and Kurrok is a low life, low defense fig, use the Wyvern's reletavily high attack to destroy him. Either way, the Elemental army loses it's key figure.

Marrden Hounds: Probably not the best idea, but sometimes ya gotta fight fire with plague.

DED is not the answer, IMO. He only has a 50% chance of taking down one at a time, and they would be on him in a heartbeat. Roasted cowboy, anyone?
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  #153  
Old February 21st, 2010, 11:04 AM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

No - DED isn't the answer, but I think he can earn back his points fairly easily against Elementals. The question remains though if the additional attacks you lose from activating him outweigh those points.

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  #154  
Old February 21st, 2010, 04:38 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

In my playtesting(based on the abilities and some assumed stats for the elemental guy), it looks like the only thing that stands up the the FE build is massive amounts of ranged figures that don't rely on high defense. 4th, 10th, etc, in large quantities can slow this build down.

The biggest problem I have with this build is that it absolutely destroys melee. The best tournament melee armies played by some of our local tournament and GenCon veterans just get completely tossed by this build. It's very powerful (obviously) against units that need/like to engage the enemy.

Hopefully, this build will stagnant in tournament play and be consistently beaten by massive cheap ranged units. Or, maybe his cost is in the 200 range (ala Kato) to where he is very tough to field.

All that said, my playtesting doesn't mean that this is broken. It's possible that we just had a bad run of circumstances down here in Texas.

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  #155  
Old February 21st, 2010, 05:18 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

I've had the same experience as you, Dignan. The only things I can beat it with are hordes of cheap ranged (stingersx5, 4thx4, 10thx4, etc).
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  #156  
Old February 21st, 2010, 05:30 PM
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Re: The Elemetals Strategy and Discussion

What about stuff like Vydar Ranged? How has that fared?

Also, Dignan, how many FEs did you use?
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