Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?

[japes]

Originally Posted by Hahma

just like when I say that Winter Soldier was the best Marvel movie. It doesn't make it so, it's just my opinion.

But Winter Soldier is the best Marvel movie...that's not an opinion at all.

[Tornado]

Original GotG for me but Winter is a close second.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by japes

But Winter Soldier is the best Marvel movie...that's not an opinion at all.

I was trying to make a point about opinions Japes. WE know that Winter Soldier is factually the best, but I trying to make this a teaching moment

Originally Posted by Tornado

Original GotG for me but Winter is a close second.

Well...you're wrong

GotG1 is in my upper tier for sure. GotG2 is down a bit, too much silliness for me.

[Tornado]

Was Nebula in Winter Soldier?
I rest my case.

[Hahma]

She wasn't in a lot of movies

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Was Nebula in Winter Soldier?
I rest my case.

You must be a Dr. Who fan. I found Karen Gillian's portrayal less than overwhelming. For me she was less a highlight and more of an afterthought. Besides everyone knows Vin Diesel's Groot and Bradley Cooper's Rocket stole the show.

[Tornado]

Yes, long time Who fan.

Amy Pond for the win.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Swamper

I didn't mind Black Panther, but it wasn't as good as the hype. Just because it has black people and talks about black issues doesn't make it a better movie than any other Marvel movie.

Geez, Swamper. Is that what you think?

I don't mind saying that I think it's the best Marvel movie, and it has nothing to do with race. It has a complex villain, it has real moral dilemmas, even the minor characters have depth, and - besides executing a traditional superhero story well - it stands up to critical evaluation. By which I mean it's more than just a superficial story.

I have nothing against shallow fiction; some of my favorite works of art fall into that category. Like the book I consider the greatest adventure of all time, The Count of Monte Cristo. And there have been plenty of excellent Marvel superhero movies in that category, such as Thor: Ragnarok, the original Avengers movie, and many of the other ones. They don't really seem to hit a wrong note, spinning these fun stories. But they aren't *about* other things the same way Black Panther was.

I don't care whether you agree with me or not, Swamper. But I will thank you kindly for allowing me the freedom of my own mind, and not prattling on about why I like one thing more than another, when I am assuredly in a better position to know how I feel about the movie.

Finally, I will say that I welcome a discussion comparing movies to each other. Some analysis - some opinions - bear up to close analysis better then others, and I'm not above a serious discussion of the worthiness of my own ideas. But I won't have my own reasons for thinking the way I do dismissed out-of-hand by someone who appears to think I'm a sociopolitically motivated simpleton.

[Raider30]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Geez, Swamper. Is that what you think?

I don't mind saying that I think it's the best Marvel movie, and it has nothing to do with race. It has a complex villain, it has real moral dilemmas, even the minor characters have depth, and - besides executing a traditional superhero story well - it stands up to critical evaluation. By which I mean it's more than just a superficial story.

I have nothing against shallow fiction; some of my favorite works of art fall into that category. Like the book I consider the greatest adventure of all time, The Count of Monte Cristo. And there have been plenty of excellent Marvel superhero movies in that category, such as Thor: Ragnarok, the original Avengers movie, and many of the other ones. They don't really seem to hit a wrong note, spinning these fun stories. But they aren't *about* other things the same way Black Panther was.

I don't care whether you agree with me or not, Swamper. But I will thank you kindly for allowing me the freedom of my own mind, and not prattling on about why I like one thing more than another, when I am assuredly in a better position to know how I feel about the movie.

Finally, I will say that I welcome a discussion comparing movies to each other. Some analysis - some opinions - bear up to close analysis better then others, and I'm not above a serious discussion of the worthiness of my own ideas. But I won't have my own reasons for thinking the way I do dismissed out-of-hand by someone who appears to think I'm a sociopolitically motivated simpleton.

Whoa there. I think you might want to lay off the mid-morning caffeine. You really jumped down his throat with your post and unless I missed something in the public posts(I went back about 4-5 pages) or he sent you a pm, there’s nothing to indicate Swampers post was directed at you.

My guess is he feels the near constant reminder of all things ‘black’ in the reviews and discussions have put pressure on him to crown the film king of all marvel movies. His opinion is just as legit as yours and at the same time it doesn’t have to detract from yours. Stop being so touchy.

Frankly to a certain extent I felt the same way. I go to movies to forget about the **** show that is the real world and I don’t enjoy being beaten over the head with socio-political messages. Especially when, for a cheap laugh, at the end of the movie the director 100% reverts back to the stereotype by having the black kids on the ball court immediately start talking about stealing and selling off the spaceship. Really??? You just spent an entire movie building up black culture, embracing the first major mainstream black superhero, and that’s the last thing you leave the audience with? All for a cheap laugh? That’s not entertainment for me.

That being said, personally I thought it was a good movie, not great. I thought the actors did a great job even though at times the lines they were given were terrible or borderline racist. I thought Killmonger was a good villain but his motives were entirely predictable, though I suppose I don’t mind that too much as it is a comic book movie and comic book villains tend to be pretty straight forward in their motivations.

I absolutely hated the tech aspect of the film. Not with Wakonda being advanced, that’s right out of the comics, but with the absurdity of the nanotechnology aspect. Marvel has been going down this road for awhile now, ever since Iron Man 2 where his entire suit was in a suitcase that was apparently as light as a clothing filled duffel bag. I just don’t buy the concept that an entire body covering suit can fit inside a necklace, and still retain everything that makes it special, no matter how magical the metal it is constructed from is.

Loved the sets, colors, costumes. Hated the idiotic rhino scene. Loved the dude from the Ape tribe(don’t recall his name). Hated the cheap laugh racist stuff.

I’m a total Black Panther fan. I’ve, owned Fantastic Four #52, the first issue the Black Panther was in, since i was 12-13 years old. I’m hoping they make another one as I’d really love to see the characters breakout of the environmental constraints that this movie necessitated they be placed into.

- Raider30

[Dad_Scaper]

You misunderstand me, Raider.

I could not care less whether Swamper, or any other person, dislikes a movie. I felt pretty strongly that The Foreigner was a truly excellent movie. Critics and audiences disagreed; that's ok.

You offer a text-based criticism of Black Panther, and I respect that. Like the movie, don't like the movie, that's on you. In another forum I had a lengthy discussion with a friend who thought it was a reskinning of The Lion King, and we had a text-based analysis of whether that was supportable.

But don't - and you didn't, but Swamper did - presume to tell me that I only thought it was the best Marvel movie because it has black people in it. That's not an opinion about the *movie*, that's an opinion about *me*. And it's insulting, and you would not tolerate it (and should not tolerate it) if I wrote something like that about *you*.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Raider30

Whoa there. I think you might want to lay off the mid-morning caffeine. You really jumped down his throat with your post and unless I missed something in the public posts(I went back about 4-5 pages) or he sent you a pm, there’s nothing to indicate Swampers post was directed at you.

My guess is he feels the near constant reminder of all things ‘black’ in the reviews and discussions have put pressure on him to crown the film king of all marvel movies. His opinion is just as legit as yours and at the same time it doesn’t have to detract from yours. Stop being so touchy.

Frankly to a certain extent I felt the same way. I go to movies to forget about the **** show that is the real world and I don’t enjoy being beaten over the head with socio-political messages. Especially when, for a cheap laugh, at the end of the movie the director 100% reverts back to the stereotype by having the black kids on the ball court immediately start talking about stealing and selling off the spaceship. Really??? You just spent an entire movie building up black culture, embracing the first major mainstream black superhero, and that’s the last thing you leave the audience with? All for a cheap laugh? That’s not entertainment for me.

That being said, personally I thought it was a good movie, not great. I thought the actors did a great job even though at times the lines they were given were terrible or borderline racist. I thought Killmonger was a good villain but his motives were entirely predictable, though I suppose I don’t mind that too much as it is a comic book movie and comic book villains tend to be pretty straight forward in their motivations.

I absolutely hated the tech aspect of the film. Not with Wakonda being advanced, that’s right out of the comics, but with the absurdity of the nanotechnology aspect. Marvel has been going down this road for awhile now, ever since Iron Man 2 where his entire suit was in a suitcase that was apparently as light as a clothing filled duffel bag. I just don’t buy the concept that an entire body covering suit can fit inside a necklace, and still retain everything that makes it special, no matter how magical the metal it is constructed from is.

Loved the sets, colors, costumes. Hated the idiotic rhino scene. Loved the dude from the Ape tribe(don’t recall his name). Hated the cheap laugh racist stuff.

I’m a total Black Panther fan. I’ve, owned Fantastic Four #52, the first issue the Black Panther was in, since i was 12-13 years old. I’m hoping they make another one as I’d really love to see the characters breakout of the environmental constraints that this movie necessitated they be placed into.

- Raider30

I liked the giant armored Rhinos, but otherwise, well said.

[Yodaking]

Since you seem to be asking for a more in depth analysis Dad Scaper, here are my thoughts on Killmonger. I liked him as a the villain and I liked that they spent some time better fleshing out his actual backstory and thus gave weight to this motivations. How often have we seen the young child version of a villain? We see how childhood events shape the heroes many times, here we got to see how a childhood event shaped the villain.

That being said, he pretends to care about the plight of all African people who are growing up in Ghettos outside of Africa, but he doesn't seem to care at all about the plight of those living in Africa itself. His first action as king is not to make Africa stronger through trade, non-weapon technology transfer, medical supplies, etc., but to send advanced weapons into ghettos? Currently in an American Ghetto, who has the most weapons and the greatest desire/willingness to take things by force or use violence? Who is most likely to exploit the arrival of advanced weapons for personal gain? That's right, drug dealers, criminals, and gang leaders. Don't see how they are going to make the lives of the average minority better since it is often the average minority who suffers from gang violence. How many times have I read about a little girl sleeping in her bed getting shot when a drive by takes place on her block?

Furthermore, we see Killmonger just casually execute his own girlfriend. Klaw made a referenced to them as Bonnie & Clyde, so clearly he was under the impression at least one of them was in love with the other. Even if they were not in love, they clearly had some kind of relationship with one another and yet Killmonger didn't care about her life at all and thought it was expendable. Then when Killmonger is fighting Black Panther he tells him that once he kills him he is going to kill his whole family and anyone in Wakanda he thinks might have supported him. That is North Korean dictator type actions.

When he arrives in Wakanda with Klaw's body, he claims he did what Black Panther couldn't do and captured Klaw. He conveniently glosses over the fact that he took Klaw away from Black Panthers custody after working closely with Klaw (for months?) as allies. Lies and manipulations are his trade. So it seems clear to me that Killmonger doesn't really care about the lives of other Africans, he's just another charlatan looking to gain power and prestige by exploiting others' fears and desires. It really irks me when I see people outright say or allude to the idea that they can identify with him and that he isn't really a villain. He's clearly evil.

As such, I agree that he is one of the better MCU villains that we have had. It seems like Marvel is finally starting to address this complaint about the MCU, I also thought the Vulture was quite good as the villain in Homecoming. Hopefully it will continue going forward. I think Man-Ape has potential as a pretty good villain in the sequel as well since we have already been introduced to his character.