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Architects of the Realms of Valhalla Discussion and presentation of the maps approved by the ARV.


View Poll Results: Which is the best map?! (Choose 3)
Dust Bowl by heroscaper2010 14 35.90%
Obsidian Wastes by Leaf_it 21 53.85%
Forest Fire by Rednax 14 35.90%
Icy Crevasse by cmgames 13 33.33%
Swamp Fire by JaesShurrig 7 17.95%
Cracked by Superfrog 12 30.77%
Ruins by the River of Vitality by Tankyteemo 6 15.38%
Lost Road Marsh by Leaf_it 18 46.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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  #25  
Old October 25th, 2017, 12:15 AM
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Re: VOTE NOW - TOP 10!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Thanks @NecroBlade for the feedback. The name is a bit of a reference to a Turok 2 level, "Slaughter by the River of Souls". As for the melee issue you mentioned I can't disagree with you as I haven't had a chance to play test it in real life.
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  #26  
Old October 25th, 2017, 12:37 AM
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Re: VOTE NOW - TOP 10!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Heck, I'll take my crack at evaluating all of them, and I'll even use the judges score table. EDIT NOTE: I did hammer down on gameplay. I think that's the most important aspect of these maps if they are going to be used in tournaments across the nation. If anyone has any questions as to why I graded them what I did, I'd be more than willing to have a conversation about the art of map building. I'm always looking to improve on everything I've already done and help others along the way also.

Obsidian Waste:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 6/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 13/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 10/10

Total: 29/40
Points off for the "original build" part, but other than that, balance looks solid. As NecroBlade already mentioned, the perches might be an issue and range might get a few good hits in before any retaliation takes place. I'd also note that flying will have an advantage as the game wears on because it can go laterally faster than anything else. Theme and name are fine.

Swamp Fire:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 7/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 3/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 6/10

Total: 16/40
Since you're using the exact same sets, it's easy to compare this to If You Can't Take The Heat.... Balance-wise I would just try to mimic some of the same things Dignan does on his map - lava on height, glyphs at the edges, and jungle spread away from height. I hate to do this, but the map name is generic. I promise I understand... I hate coming up with map names myself. A few points off for that.

Ruins by the River of Vitality:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 1/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 7/10

Total: 18/40
Necro already said what the problem is here. Melee is going to get slaughtered coming from one hill to the other. I do like the choice of Wannok for a wasteland though. The name is a little long. There's times at a tournament when a pair of players will ask me the name of a map... I can't imagine yelling across the room spitting out "Ruins by the River of Vitality"...
"What," they ask. "Ruins. By the River. Of Vitality."


Lost Road Marsh:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 1/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 3/10

Total: 14/40
The build looks beautiful... but that's the problem. This is the one time that trees on the map don't work. I'm a Star Wars fan and this definitely isn't where Luke found Yoda. The road, the trees... Nothing says wasteland or abandoned here. Competitively, Rats will screen the living daylight out of an opposing army as they can get 3 spaces ahead of the glyphs/middle of the map by Turn 2. I also don't like that Raelin can perch behind the tree and cover both glyphs all with a single OM. As far as the Hive goes, there has to be a place for it. I get it, just remove 6 swamp hexes, but hey, even Draugur underwent changes by mad_wookiee to be accepted into the BoV because it technically, originally didn't have space for the Hive.
Spoiler Alert!


Ticallan Tower:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 10/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 8/10

Total: 28/40
I don't mind the road so much, because the scattered battlements sell me a "battle wasteland". From there, the trees have grown from the abandonment. As far as balance goes, I don't like that the height doesn't go higher than level 2. However, the glyphs may be spread out enough to keep the action moving (especially with that nice lateral road NB talked about). One thing that bothers me from a gameplay perspective, and I totally get it from a "it's-an-odd-numbered-piece", is the tree in the center of the castle ruins. Like it looks nice, but that's all it is - a fashion statement.

Barren Plateau:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 8/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 3/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 8/10

Total: 19/40
I don't like the water for the theme - which knocked off a couple of points from the first and last sections. This will just play as a range-haven, allowing figures to camp off the ridges of the shadow and await melee to try and pass through. Sorry, but +1 defense does not equal +1 attack. That and the 2nd glyph being outside Move 5 figures' 2nd turn is a killer.

Forest Fire:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 3/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 13/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 6/10

Total: 31/40
Originality of build loses points here. It looks ok... Something isn't clicking for me but it looks good enough. Personally, I would switch the Wound and Initiative glyphs. Generic name loses points also (see Swamp Fire). I'd have to play it a little more, but I notice Zelrig could bomb the SZ Turn 1. I think we now know who started this fire though...

Icy Crevase:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 4/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 1/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 10/10

Total: 15/40
Aesthetics are a bit all over the place on this one. I don't like the sand especially. Congrats on being the only one to make it into the top 10 using Tundra though. I do like the idea of using it as a, well, tundra wasteland (btw, that's probably something I would've named my tundra wasteland map... Tundra Wasteland, so for those of you who I've criticized for generic names, just join the club. Not all of us are English Majors. When it comes to gameplay, there's just no reason to move around the edges or sometime even leave the SZ, as all of height, glyphs, and shadow are in the middle and height is even all around (including the SZs).

Cracked:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 10/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 10/10

Total: 30/40
Good look, and I can't knock points for originality of build when you're trying just with a BftU and VW. The double dungeon hexes out the the left of the SZ are the most powerful spots. Melee might have trouble and rats will clog it up easily, but that's what a single BftU will do for you (unless of course, you are the legend single BftU map builder himself.

Dust Bowl: (ah, my own map...)
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 13/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 10/10

Total: 33/40
Well, you can hardly say it's unoriginal. That is unless you know the inspiration like psychic-Robber. As NB said, road and wasteland may not mesh normally, but I think selling it with sand and dust was perfect integration. Raelin can perch on the top sand hex to the left of each SZ on Turn 1, but that's such a high-traffic area I'm not sure why you'd want to put her there. Sadly, Zelrig can land the on top two road hexes on the same side and bomb the first row of the SZ (max 5 figs). Avoidable, but none-the-less, a little glitch. It can get really high traffic if both players have large armies (I think one of the game at the tourney was Glads on both sides ), but other than that I've enjoyed the way it plays so far.

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Last edited by heroscaper2010; October 25th, 2017 at 01:04 AM.
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  #27  
Old October 25th, 2017, 05:56 AM
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Re: VOTE NOW - TOP 10!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Quick thoughts on each map:

Obsidian Wastes: As I said before, the middle seems deceptively difficult for melee to cross, meaning ranged units, even if they aren't able to grab height, should easily get off 2-3 or more shots on an approaching enemy. Aesthetically it fits the theme.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Obsidian Waste:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 6/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 13/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 10/10

Total: 29/40
Points off for the "original build" part, but other than that, balance looks solid. As NecroBlade already mentioned, the perches might be an issue and range might get a few good hits in before any retaliation takes place. I'd also note that flying will have an advantage as the game wears on because it can go laterally faster than anything else. Theme and name are fine.
It's true, Range is probably at an advantage on this map. That said, range shouldn't be able to keep a height advantage very consistently because of the lava. Saying that Range can easily get 2-3 shots off isn't really saying much, because range can do on just about any map. The important thing on this map, is that range can't do it with a height advantage, without stepping onto lava. Still, this map doesn't have a ton of sight blockers, so it's safe to say that it favors range, just as most other maps do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Lost Road Marsh: More roads that mostly do nothing... Jungle cover and a massive middle LoS block are helpful, but the roads don't access enough of the opposing hill easily. Melee is going to get shot once or twice if it wants to approach despite all the trees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Lost Road Marsh:
Aesthetics and Creativity(originality of build/looks good): 10/10
Balanced (doesn't favor one build over another): 1/20
Fits Theme & Good name: 3/10

Total: 14/40
The build looks beautiful... but that's the problem. This is the one time that trees on the map don't work. I'm a Star Wars fan and this definitely isn't where Luke found Yoda. The road, the trees... Nothing says wasteland or abandoned here. Competitively, Rats will screen the living daylight out of an opposing army as they can get 3 spaces ahead of the glyphs/middle of the map by Turn 2. I also don't like that Raelin can perch behind the tree and cover both glyphs all with a single OM. As far as the Hive goes, there has to be a place for it. I get it, just remove 6 swamp hexes, but hey, even Draugur underwent changes by mad_wookiee to be accepted into the BoV because it technically, originally didn't have space for the Hive.
Spoiler Alert!
I honestly feel that Lost Road Marsh is more balanced than Obsidian Wastes, so I'm quite confused that both of you think it's worse.

I hope this doesn't come off the wrong way, but this isn't trying to be Dagobah. This is an old road that has been forgotten, and has become overgrown. If you look at the build instructions you can actually see that road goes underneath the patch of trees, and connects to the other side's roadway. I must respectfully state that I believe heroscaper2010 is wrong to say that this does not feel abandoned, and overgrown.

Unless range wants to run right up to your side of the map, it can't get attacks off on you with a height advantage. This changes once you get to a glyph, but glyphs are supposed to be in bad positions. The trees make it so that melee can stay on it's own side of the map with a height advantage, until you are ready to run around the trees. The two highest points are close enough, even though they can't see each other, that if you start from one side of the trees, even a 4 move non-flying figure can engage the highest point on the other side of the trees in 1 turn.

As for Raelin, yes, she can cover the glyphs, but the other player will get a height advantage on those figures, and that puts Raelin pretty close to the front lines which is a big risk. If you move your forces past the glyphs, then you don't get your Raelin buff, so the other player either gets to engage when they are ready to, or you don't get your Raelin buff. You could just flying her over the trees at that point, but then she has no cover at all, and a road leading right to her. Rats will always do well if you know what you're doing with them.

Yeah... I'm still not sure if I want to add a weird patch of terrain just for the Hive. If that's the only thing wrong with the map, I don't know that I really care. I don't mean to be rude when I say that, it just doesn't make sense to me. I actually like Mad_Wookiee's first version better myself, and I see this issue as something quite nit-picky. In my eyes this is going by the word of the law, instead of the spirit of the law. Actually, looking at the different versions of Draugur makes me want to change Lost Road Marsh even less now, because I think it both looked, and flowed a bit better before those changes. It won't bother me if this keeps it from being ARG approved, and I feel that this will likely be the case.


Despite how my response might sound, I really do appreciate your feedback. Just please understand that I put a good amount of time and effort into these maps, and so I am going to defend them. Even if I don't agree with what you have said about them, I hope that you will give me your honest feedback on my maps in the future as well. Thank you.

Last edited by Leaf_It; October 25th, 2017 at 06:16 AM.
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  #28  
Old October 29th, 2017, 06:43 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

CONGRATULATIONS LEAF_IT!!!


Download

Through the ruins of an old building the lava still pours out, covering the hillside in mounds of obsidian. The area may be dangerous, but the lava has brought with it sources of energy, and power. Opposing forces clash seeking to secure it for themselves.

Requires: RotV, Marvel, VW

WHAT A CONTEST! We just want to thank everyone so much for participating! It was really exciting to receive 18 fun and exciting map submissions from the community and then to watch as 39 unique voters from the community participated in voting on the Top 10. That is the largest participation we have had yet!! @Leaf_It please contact @BiggaBullfrog about receiving your prize.

For those of you who made the Top 10, keep an eye out on these threads as we will be playtesting on these maps, determining whether or not they are tournament worthy. Those maps that are accepted will be posted publicly in the Tournament Map Archive, and when playtesting for all maps is complete we will publicly post our reviews in the Map Reviews thread. For those of you that did not make the Top 10, have no fear! Make your way over to the Workshop Thread where we can help you rework your maps and maybe get them up to par. And for those interested who may have missed it, please check out our NEW Map Articles thread where you can find links to articles that BiggaBullfrog and I write each month regarding map building tips, map spotlights and our map contests.

Thank you everyone again, and have a HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
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  #29  
Old October 29th, 2017, 06:59 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Congratulations Leaf_It, and thanks everyone for your submissions! I'm excited to start playing on them!
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  #30  
Old October 29th, 2017, 07:31 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Congrats @Leaf_It .

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  #31  
Old October 30th, 2017, 04:19 AM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Thanks everyone. I had hoped that my maps would make it into the top 10, but I never expected they would be this popular. Really, I can express how happy I am with the reception they received. I actually feel a little bad about it, because I thought some of them really should have done better.

I want to make an apology to some of you as well. I made a pretty big deal out of needing to provide a place for the hive in my Lost Road Marsh Map. I still find it odd that there isn't a way to place it on Swamp Water, but my own opinions shouldn't get in the way of the rules. If I offended, or rubbed anyone the wrong way, I am sorry, and I hope that you will all give Lost Road Marsh a chance, because I think it's a really great map.

I have already spoken to @Sir Heroscape , and @BiggaBullfrog and I will be officially updating my submission of Lost Road Marsh to allow for the Hive to be placed. The original Download will be left in tact for anyone who wants to play on the original.
Lost Road Marsh, The Hive Placement Version:

https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...o=file&id=4717
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  #32  
Old November 1st, 2017, 02:25 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

When and where can we look for reviews on these maps? I'm very interested in hearing some feedback so I get better for next time.

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  #33  
Old November 1st, 2017, 02:32 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Congrats, Leaf_It!


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  #34  
Old November 1st, 2017, 05:21 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

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When and where can we look for reviews on these maps? I'm very interested in hearing some feedback so I get better for next time.
Based on the last contest, they will write them in a few weeks after playtesting them some more.

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Congrats, Leaf_It!
Thank you.
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Old November 1st, 2017, 09:43 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
When and where can we look for reviews on these maps? I'm very interested in hearing some feedback so I get better for next time.
Our goal is always to have all the maps playtested and officially voted on/reviewed before the next contest. So far we've been doing a contest roughly every four months so while there's no timetable on any specific map, you can expect an officially posted review before that. But, the Workshop Thread receives pretty prompt feedback for maps that need reworking...so if you feel like your map needs to be reworked before we start playtesting then I'd suggest posting it on that thread.
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  #36  
Old January 9th, 2018, 02:06 PM
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Re: WINNER!!! (Valhallan Wastelands)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
When and where can we look for reviews on these maps? I'm very interested in hearing some feedback so I get better for next time.
Our goal is always to have all the maps playtested and officially voted on/reviewed before the next contest. So far we've been doing a contest roughly every four months so while there's no timetable on any specific map, you can expect an officially posted review before that. But, the Workshop Thread receives pretty prompt feedback for maps that need reworking...so if you feel like your map needs to be reworked before we start playtesting then I'd suggest posting it on that thread.
Just was wondering how close you guys are (or aren't) to having your reviews for these maps. Obviously a lot of maps, and the holidays were recent, but just wanted to check in on it. You guys are doing a great job here at the ARV, and the time put in to make sure each map is right is proof of that.

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