The Fall of Feylund

[TheAverageFan]

TGRF Responses:

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

This is crazy, because I felt this was where my writing was the weakest for the story. I'm glad it managed to build tension when in reality it was just me treading water until they found the Curse.

I mean, technically it is treading water until they find the Curse, but at the same time it's doing other things because it's well written. But then you, if I may be so bold, tend to view a lot more things as filler compared to myself seeing them as elements of merit.

Originally Posted by TGRF

I appreciate getting your insights on the main debate as the story unfolds. It's a great way for me to see how effective my writing is, and what is or isn't working.

Well to your credit this story features much more of a morally gray ethical debate versus the previous stories where it was more cut-and-dry. Dilmir 3 is to me a lot like Captain America: Civil War where you can ask different audiences who was ultimately right and get different answers. I'm curious where your other readers will fall on the Curse vs Uncurse thing.

Chapters 8-whatever:

Spoiler Alert!

Ch. 8: If Ilrin's parents are going to have dialogue in Dilmir 2 and in this (indeed more than Inilidin so far here), can they at least get names? Like, I get that they're not important but still, three minutes on Fantasy Name Generator dot net should do the trick.

“I’m not leaving,” Ilrin said. “I don’t want to be at Elnnesar, not knowing what’s happening, just waiting. You can send the others. Those who can’t fight. But I’m staying.”

“No,” Dilmir said gently, putting a hand on her shoulder. “You’re not.”

Ilrin looked at him, her brown eyes betraying a flicker of frustration. Frustration that he could – and probably would – send her to Elnnesar whether she wanted to go or not. She was powerless to stop him.

I don't normally get this woke but I really think there's something to be said for the 0-to-100 percent ratio of control in Ilrin and Dilmir's relationship. He puts spells on her without her knowing, teleports her against her consent (or tries to anyway), and she's clearly not happy about it here but can basically do nothing but complain to her parents about it but they're all "Nah, it'll be fine" and Dilmir's like "Eh, she'll get over it".

Maybe if there was a bit more spunk or charm to it it'd feel less weird.

I do get that—like my "where Alfimir" sentiment in Curse—this is me bringing in stuff that the story's not about, with relationship junk mostly on the back burner. But Dilmir's really more like her Dad if I were to look for a fitting analogy. He has all of the power in their dynamic and he's fully aware of it. If only there was a different, humble and more sensitive, elf she could find, like Aldir. He's solid.

How long would it be before one elf realized he was immune to magic, and decided to exact revenge on his neighbor for some long-forgotten crime?

I mean, that neighbor elf would also be immune to magic, so...? Ah, whatever. I'm sure having an atmosphere of complete distrust of each other will be useful in the struggle against Aranthar.

This is probably the weakest chapter thus far.

Ch. 9: One of the things I really appreciate about Aranthar as a villain so far is that whenever he strikes it's never immediately clear to me as the reader what exactly he's doing. I'm on the same page as the characters and not ahead, and there's just an immediate tension and high-alert as something goes Boom somewhere and we all understand that Aranthar is attacking and rush to see how or where. It also makes him a clever antagonist who finds a way to hide even the bluntest of assaults.

Ch. 10: It's good to see Felnir again, although his stealing the staff certainly makes it seem like Eltuthar might be up to no good. Once all the dust has cleared with Aranthar I wonder if the real dilemma will be what comes afterwards.

We only met Aranthar once in Dilmir 2, but he did have plenty of dialogue in that one chapter, so it's a little odd that he's so quiet here. Maybe it's just a thing or maybe his character—being solely focused on his one task—only talks to allies and only when it's concerning his quest, and otherwise says nothing to his enemies and has no patience for banter.

Anyways what a dark chapter! You're just obliterating everything around here in this story. I assumed when given a map of Elnnesar that we'd be leaving Eld'rin, but not because it'd be hit by a tactical nuke. I guess we'll see if we get a new Eld'rin by the story's end, one with fewer training pits and more liquor stores.

Ch. 11: Denethor lives!

“You’re hurt, Dilmir,” Inilidin said, finally breaking the silence. She knelt down beside him.

She can talk!






It's good to see Eltuthar back and with a plan of his own. I guess how sinister things go with that will depend on whether or not this ethical dilemma is solved before Aranthar is dealt with or afterwards; or which of these two plotlines is gonna go on to be Book 4 (unless that'll be about something else entirely). I'm kind of hoping it's after because a dilemma between good-but-also-kinda-morally-gray-in-some-ways characters is more interesting than one against a morally unambiguous bad guy (at least as far as we know). It's also interesting seeing Dilmir now suddenly on the complete opposite side of where he was in the last two stories. I guess we'll see if he comes back around by the end or not.


Spelling & Grammar:

Would he have to ignore everyone he cared most about to fulfil his duty to the elves?

Fulfil and fulfill are both correct spellings of the same word. It means “to put into effect,” “to achieve,” “to carry out,” or “to realize.” Fulfil is the spelling commonly used in English speaking countries like the UK and Australia. Fulfill is the spelling commonly used in the United States.

I just knew that off the top of my head.

Ilrin’s eyes slowly drifted down, until she was staring at the ground, but otherwise she didn’t more or speak.

Move or speak, I assume.

Halfway through, and where we're going from here I've got no idea. I'll keep you posted.

~TAF

[TGRF]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

But then you, if I may be so bold, tend to view a lot more things as filler compared to myself seeing them as elements of merit.

Definitely true. I'm not sure where that started, because I used to be able to write nothing but filler.

Ch. 8: If Ilrin's parents are going to have dialogue in Dilmir 2 and in this (indeed more than Inilidin so far here), can they at least get names? Like, I get that they're not important but still, three minutes on Fantasy Name Generator dot net should do the trick.

This was definitely something I was aware of while writing. To be honest, I could have come up with names for them (and probably should have), but given their upcoming... departure, I both didn't want to take the time to do so, and I didn't know how to introduce the new names in non-forced manner. I mean, Ilrin isn't going to call them by their names, so I'd have to shoehorn in some instance of someone doing it, and then reinforce it a few times through dialogue so the reader wouldn't forget, and then after all that they'd be gone anyway, so... yeah.

I don't normally get this woke but I really think there's something to be said for the 0-to-100 percent ratio of control in Ilrin and Dilmir's relationship. He puts spells on her without her knowing, teleports her against her consent (or tries to anyway), and she's clearly not happy about it here but can basically do nothing but complain to her parents about it but they're all "Nah, it'll be fine" and Dilmir's like "Eh, she'll get over it".

This is something else I was aware of while writing. Surrounded as we are by the wokeness of what-have-you, it's kind of hard not to be. Obviously, this is a fairly natural result of Dilmir embracing his magic while Ilrin remains Cursed... if the dynamic between them changes by the end of the fourth book is anyone's guess. Literally. I'm writing the subarcs right now.

I mean, that neighbor elf would also be immune to magic, so...?

Ah... I guess the assumption is that stopping the offending elf would be harder than it would be for said offending elf to knife his neighbor when no one was looking. But I digress. You summed it up fairly well:

This is probably the weakest chapter thus far.

We only met Aranthar once in Dilmir 2, but he did have plenty of dialogue in that one chapter, so it's a little odd that he's so quiet here. Maybe it's just a thing or maybe his character—being solely focused on his one task—only talks to allies and only when it's concerning his quest, and otherwise says nothing to his enemies and has no patience for banter.

In early outlines Aranthar was delivering dialogue at Eld'rin, but I quickly decided it was out of place. It just felt weird for him to go in there, blowing everything up, and then start delivering a speech. This is an attack. There isn't much dialogue during a fight (unless you're Marvel); just a lot of yelling and screaming usually.

Denethor lives!

You may get a kick out of knowing that at least half of my development for this story inadvertently began referring to him as Denethor. There's even some references in the outline.

Spoiler Alert!

She can talk!

Typos fixed, thanks for spotting them.

Glad to know the direction is staying hidden. Based on your comments, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on several upcoming chapters.

~TGRF.

[TheAverageFan]

You must be doing something right because I read the second half in one sitting. My thoughts are probably longer than the story itself:

Chapters 12-End:

Spoiler Alert!

Ch. 12:

The elves had good reason to fear the wolves. It was said that deep in the forest, where no elf dared walk, there grew a plant. The sap of this plant was poison, a poison like no other. It attacked, not the nerves or the muscles, but magic. An elf poisoned with it would rapidly lose all of his magic. There was no cure. The poison was easy to extract from the body, but the magic could not be returned. It would come back, slowly, but it would be years before the elf regained what he had lost.

I feel like there's a solution to this whole Aranthar problem just staring us in the face, but I'm not sure what it is.

It's strange that Eltuthar is still sticking with the group, now that he was the Curse. You think he'd run off with it before the other elves can steal it back, but I guess he thinks they wouldn't dare try while Aranthar is still on the loose.

These artifacts could be used with only a word or two, and a powerful spell could be cast in a fraction of the time it would normally have taken to do so. The Curse is one such artifact. To weave such a spell would take hours.

I mean, that doesn't sound like too big of a hassle. Hours doesn't seem like too long a time for an Elf to do anything, let alone create a deadly magic weapon.

During the discussion about magic and energy, I began to wonder if there were other words to use besides Magic. The word is uttered so many times in a short period that it makes the dialogue seem a bit clunky. I don't know if there are other alternate words that would fit, like arcana or spellcraft or sorcery or whatever, unless those are different things in your world and only the flat term of Magic can suffice for what they're talking about. The same goes for Curse, as seen below:

They aren’t the same curse, but they are similar. I’m almost certain Sonlen used parts of the Curse to make his own curse.

It seems like Ilrin is starting to have her way more with Dilmir, which is good. He seems to be under the impression that she's useless, which as a character whose name is not Dilmir is kind of true, but she does have healing magic and longsword proficiency so there isn't much reason to have her shuffled off to Elnnesar when she can if nothing else patch up Dilmir after a fight.

This is a very long chapter.


Ch. 13: I can't express enough how nice it is to go to the non-Eld'rin locations of Feylund. Every bit of other set dressing besides the original city helps expand and build the world.

It's very strange that you've suddenly dropped another Uncursed elf into the story seemingly on a dime; and one with more power than Dilmir apparently, although what that means when she can't even cast spells I'm not certain. I guess somehow Uncursed elves have some kind of base Power Level that is both detectible and unrelated to their current magic capabilities? Are you born with this Power Level, and can it be increased or is it just inherent?

I'm assuming that Dilmir will find more Uncursed elves along the way and train them into a force that can together beat Aranthar. And maybe then he won't be able to bring himself to Curse them all afterwards.


Ch. 14: I think this is our first Alfimir PoV chapter.

Alfimir didn’t like the dwarves. They were too volatile: condescending one moment and furious the next. They were a nosy, suspicious people, distrustful of everyone, and always seeking an advantage. But he tolerated them. The trade they did with the elves made up over half of the kingdom’s wealth. And besides, they were deadly warriors. Magic or not, no one wanted to find themselves on the wrong side of their axes.

I feel like there's a solution to this whole Aranthar problem just staring us in the face, but I'm not sure what it is.

His scouts said Aranthar’s army wasn’t moving quickly either, taking its time getting to Elnnesar. ... And that could only mean he was waiting for something. But what? The longer he delayed, the more elves flooded into Elnnesar.

I feel like you just answered your own question. It's gonna take forever to wipe out all the elves if they're all spread out across the forest.

When he finally reached the city, he would be opposed by one of the largest armies the elves had ever fielded. Was that really what he wanted?

Yeah, because the army was such a problem the last time he attacked. If anything's ever posed such a threat in any of these Dilmir stories, it's the default elf armies. I'm getting the sense from this PoV that Alfimir's not too bright.

I think the latter half of the chapter once Eltuthar lifts the Curse and has his little confrontation with Alfimir is probably the best stuff in any of the Dilmir stories thus far. Both of these characters are so interesting and have such a storied history, and it's impossible to say which of the two is going to make the first move into bad-decision territory (spoilers: Alfimir). I love the way the dynamic is instantly flipped on its head the second Eltuthar has some of his power back, with Alfimir reduced to begging and Eltuthar reminding him of everything he's done. The only real problem is that the Alfimir-Eltuthar conflict is far more interesting than the Aranthar one.

I don't know if instantly trying to appeal to Aranthar is a good idea. I'm guessing the guy who's lived 1000 years and has been trying to wipe out the elves for 800 of those years isn't going to change his mind any time soon.


Ch. 15: Now that Dilmir has made up his mind on being pro-Curse, using Ilrin PoV chapters as a way to subtly build her as anti-Curse is a good way to set up what will inevitably be a conflict later, but also to make sure the reader isn't constantly being shown everything through that one lens.

I wonder where Denethor went. He was listed as one of the survivors, but I'm not sure which group he went with when they split up.

If Dilmir can just stop all the wolves' hearts, does that mean Aranthar could just do the same to all of them? He's able to enchant the air for miles around, and he can assumedly override the magic even of the elves' own bodies. Certainly Dilmir has been able to override Ilrin when teleporting her around.

It was fortunate. The poison the wolves used would drain an elf of his magic. A single cut, or one prick from a dart, and they would have no more magic than the day they were born. There was no cure, either. The toxin could be removed easily, but once the magic was gone, it was gone. It would come back, but it would take years.

I feel like there's a solution to this whole Aranthar problem just staring us in the face, but I'm not sure what it is—oh nevermind they finally figured it out.

It'd be pretty neat if they convinced the wolves to help fight Aranthar because he is an elf and could pose a threat to their whole race. And if you think that's not a bright idea then may I remind you that Alfimir is going to try to recruit Aranthar to his side.

He had purposefully misled her, and used her to get at Dilmir. That was just something Ilrin couldn’t forgive. People who dealt in lies and bartered trust like it was something easily gained – it made Ilrin’s skin crawl.

Give the guy a chance it's not like he's some kind of Super-Judas! You were quick enough to forgive burnt-down-your-favorite-place Alfimir and literally-sold-you-out Denethor without constantly giving them the stink-eye 24/7.

This isn't quite a spelling/grammar thing, but Aldir's sword becomes sheathed and then unsheathed in one scene:

“What did you do to them?” Aldir asked, as Dilmir approached. He sheathed his sword, glancing warily at the fallen wolf.

“This,” Ilrin said, gesturing to his still-drawn sword, shimmering with wolf blood.

I only got the chapter title when going back to post this.


Ch. 16: This is a bizarre chapter. Alfimir just finds Aranthar, walks up to him, says "Could you stop killing the elves?" He says, "No, do you wanna kill all the elves?" Alfimir answers, "No." and then Aranthar says "OK, cya." and the chapter ends.

I guess this is to be expected of a villain, but Aranthar's reasoning for why he's doing what he's doing is rather circular and nonsensical. He was rejected for being too powerful with magic and now in order to get revenge he's basically going to do what the Council that rejected him would ultimately want anyway. He's essentially like Eltuthar in origin, but Eltuthar's ambitions make sense. Maybe there's a bunch of self-loathing involved with Aranthar to the point that it's the conflict that arises from magic moreso than the magic itself that he wants to eradicate.

Also it's weird that he doesn't actually want to eliminate all the elves, since he plans to spare himself and his Asdelarcen, only sealing all their magic. Hypothetically if he gets to Elnnesar and all of them are like "Nah mate we all want to join the Asdelarcen" will he just take their magic and call it a day? And then they can all just bludgeon him to death? How long does Aranthar and his crew plan to make it without magic before the wolves come and kill them all? Maybe he's lying about the no-magic thing or just doesn't much care what befalls elvenkind afterwards.

Spelling + Grammar:

Aranthar raised a single eyebrow. “Do you?” he said. “Really? Thank back, Alfimir.

Think back.


Ch. 17: I don't know if this is intentional, or if there is any method behind your Elven language, but Elnnesar sounds extremely similar to Elessar from LotR.

As they approached, Dilmir felt real hope for the first time since Aranthar had attacked Eld’rin. If there was any place which could offer Aranthar resistance, it was Elnnesar.

Y tho? He turned the last giant tree into literal dust. I don't know what makes this place any better than Eld'rin or any other battlefield.

And then he understood: the true soldiers, the elves trained in combat and magic, had all been at Eld’rin. The real army had flocked to the capital, hoping to defeat Aranthar there. And there they had been destroyed.

See my previous comment on Chapter 14.

I like to imagine that Eltuthar has just been walking around Uncursing random elves with his staff for the last two days before his meeting with Dilmir here.

I guess since there's no training I'll have to find other means to have a drinking game for Dilmir 3. So take a shot every time Dilmir and Ilrin talk about how she's staying, no you're not, yes I am.


Ch. 18: I was wondering if Aimim would show up at any point in this story. This is probably the most interaction she and Dilmir have, if memory serves.

Dilmir continuing to grow into his archmage shoes by reassuring everybody is good

“Aranthar will attack in the morning,” he said as the conversation lulled. “I overheard a scout on our way here: he’s camped just an hour away.”

How do you know that? There's no reason he couldn't attack at night. Unless for some reason Aranthar for all his mastery can't find a way to see in the dark, and if that is the case you all need to go attack him right away.

I'm concerned about the heroes basically having no plan as far as I can tell. They know what they're dealing with now after the attack on Eld'rin, but other than using the wolf poison once they're through the shield they haven't come up with anything else. Actually they have less of a plan than they did at Eld'rin where they had the Curse. I don't know if winging it will do much against an enemy they know is basically a god.

“We’ll win,” Inilidin said confidently. “All of the soldiers have Asdelarcen shields, and the undead will get trapped in the pits. That only leaves Aranthar, and even he can’t hold off an entire army.”

I'm not sure what else her character is going to do, having come so out of nowhere, but thus far Astir definitely seems like Dilmir's anti-theme in regards to his joining the Council's opinions on Cursing.


Ch. 19:

“Endir,” Dilmir said, turning to them all. “Ilrin. You need to go to the keep.”

Endir nodded, helping Inilidin up.

I can't tell if this is a typo or not. Did Dilmir mean to say Inilidin? Or does he want all three of them to leave? I dunno.

Ilrin has to leave but wants to stay. Take a shot!

What really surprised me this chapter was that it was actually the army that dealt with everything, with Dilmir taking a back seat and basically being useless, despite my earlier complaints. Actually, wait, wait no scratch that, reverse it. Dilmir does everything, and since this is the first time that Aranthar's assault is apparent from the onset, he actually manages to deal with it all pretty handily.


Ch. 20: Holy Moley, what a disaster. Why does Aranthar bother with anything other than just showing up himself, other than making sure there are warm bodies between him and his enemies so his shield doesn't get punched. Even then I don't doubt that his shield can absorb an immeasurable amount of damage, even if he were wading through an enemy army. This is what happens when you have no plan.

And then Dilmir saw, through the spray of blood from his sword, a single figure enter the market, and stand in the middle of it. He wore a dark cloak, but his head was bare, revealing gray hair. His armor was black, and a naked sword hung at his waist.

We're also taking a shot every time Aranthar is described in the exact same way, with his bare head and naked sword.

Dilmir losing his magic to wolf poison is honestly probably one of the best things that could happen to him in a character sense. How he's going to deal with that should be interesting to see, suddenly being useless for who knows how long.

Well now I know why Astia was introduced. RIP


Ch. 21: I really thought one or both of the two main plotlines (Aranthar + Eltuthar) would be wrapped up in this story, but it looks like neither of them are. I didn't expect them to fare worse than at Eld'rin, and am curious to see in the next book how the heroes will repopulate Feylund with the ten elves who are left.

Speaking of which, it's strange to me that you would make this story so bleak and yet not kill a single (named) character from any of the previous stories. The only elf we knew so far who died was Astia. If Inilidin does not somehow prove vitally instrumental in Aranthar's downfall I'll be so confused about her inclusion in any of this


Ch. 22: Don't think I haven't noticed the use of "The Will of X" chapters across this story. Nice little detail there. But when is The Will of Denethor?

It's interesting that the last chapter is from Ilrin's PoV and not Dilmir, although that is perhaps fitting as it's the only way we'll get any hope showing through at the end here. Better to end on a bittersweet note than a bleak one.

And the crudeness of the words somehow gave the marker meaning, Ilrin knowing the time it had taken to make it. It hadn’t been done hastily by magic, easily forgotten.

This is a strange thing for Ilrin to think after everything we've just seen from her looking at the city.

It's ironic that Dilmir thinks that lifting the Curse would create more Aranthars when only Alfimir knows that Aranthar was created by attempted magical restrictions. Maybe Alfimir might come around before Dilmir does, an interesting thought. It's also interesting seeing how far apart Dilmir has grown from Eltuthar when they were so close in the first story. He's really grown up and wizened to Eltuthar's too-unhesitant approach, but also soured greatly at the same time by everything that's happened. I like how bitter his character has become, and I still like Eltuthar's unbridled ambition. He's lifted some of his curse and he does not care who tries to stand in his way; I like his character and he's not a bad guy but he very much still sees everything in black-and-white terms and I get the feeling his reckless approach to the Curse will only cause trouble before all's said and done. He just dismisses any notion that anything could go awry with his plans, and unless the author is dumb that usually signals danger to me in stories.

I don't know if crossing an ocean you know nothing about is a good idea. Sounds like a great way to die if you ask me, but maybe it's the only place they can go where Aranthar wouldn't be able to sense them. I'm surprised they didn't go north since that's where the one guy in Ch. 1 went, and maybe they'd meet his descendants there and form an army or something, I dunno. Maybe that was just to explain where Dilmir's line came from.


Author's Note: I can definitely see your points about writing these stories one at a time without planning the whole thing out. It definitely explains why some characters are just dropped for entire stories before popping up again. You could smooth out a lot of my little gripes had they all been interconnected. And I probably would've condensed Curse into the first parts of this had you the ability to redo it all into one more-planned-out narrative, since so little happens in that compared to books 1 and 3.

There was absolutely no convenience in this story that I could see, save for maybe Dilmir becoming unable to teleport. If Aranthar could enchant the air in so vast an area I imagine all the characters would've suffocated pretty quickly. Other than that though nothing was easy for our heroes, quite the opposite in fact. There was also no instances of me being ahead of the characters, save for them wondering why Aranthar was okay with them all gathering in one spot.

Again I'm really shocked you didn't kill Inilidin in this, now knowing her fate in the original Dilmir 2. There were certainly plenty of reasons for Aranthar to kill her. She remains a non-character, but an alive non-character. If she's the one who ultimately kills Aranthar in Dilmir 4 I'll be forced to give it a 10 on that alone

So I had to hastily craft a mini-arc, dealing with Dilmir’s decision, trying to get him to where he was at the end of the outline.

If this is the Curse vs Uncurse decision, then I have to thank you for deciding to expand it as it turned out to be the best thing about this story. Dilmir's character really underwent a ton in this entry and as a result was leagues above how he was previously. Undergoing the responsibilities and complete 180 of being an Archmage as well as seeing for himself how terrifying magic can be were two great arcs for the character, although for now both remain incomplete. I guess just don't somehow botch it in the final entry.



Final Thoughts: I am going to give this a very generous 9, closer to an 8 than a 10. I was leaning 8 toward the end, due to the second half not being as good as the first, and ending in a way that I initially thought to be abrupt, but upon reflection I think the ending is good for what it is—setting aside my expectations that one of the plot lines would be resolved. If nothing else I will give it a 9 because I gave Curse a 7, and this is much much better than one point above that, and easily the best of the Dilmir stories (so far).

My usual compliments for this series are the magic descriptions, but in this one the best thing was definitely the ethical dilemma that Dilmir had to go through with choosing between what's best for him and what's best for the elves, as well as if elvenkind should be Cursed or not. As I expected, pairing him with Alfimir was a good idea as they can really learn from each other and make a good team. And also you took the debate seriously. In the previous two Dilmir stories the Curse side of the debate is basically unfounded and ridiculous, and the characters who support it are villainous and absurd. They might as well have been against Dilmir because they were jelly about his good looks. But in this story you gave a good argument for the Curse in the form of Aranthar, and a good argument against it in Astia, as well as PoV characters from both sides, and never showed your hand as the author which will prove to be the correct one (spoilers: it's Uncursed).

You also took full advantage of using the best gray-area characters: Alfimir and Eltuthar in the story. Both were sorely missed in Dilmir 2. You did a great job with Alfimir and he made a great antihero this story, though if he'll stray back into villainy remains to be seen. One of the things that made the latter half of the story hurt is that after talking to Aranthar, Alfimir basically drops from it completely. Nobody even wonders where he is when they get to Elnessar or afterwards.

As for Eltuthar, he's never felt more sinister to me than in this story, where the side opposing his suddenly has merit; there was definitely something ominous about him stealing the Curse at the first chance, and his conversation with Alfimir when he makes the Anticurse was great, part of me genuinely thought he would kill him there on the spot. In a ethically complicated story, his 0-100 perspective just made him seem dangerous to me. He is a complete wildcard in the story as is, and I have no clue if he'll save the day or perish against Aranthar or become a threat afterwards or what have you. As is I think both he and Alfimir represent the extremes that Dilmir and the rest of the new generation will have to overcome, maybe by finding a new way rather than ultimately siding with either of them. Regardless Eltuthar remains the best character.

For the other characters, they exist. I am starting to warm up to Ilrin again, and the more bitter Dilmir gets the better she'll be as a PoV I think moving forward. Everyone else is mostly disposable, and yet none of them have died and so could all still serve a purpose. Aldir has just been hanging around for the entire story. Even Denethor is still out there somewhere. But I'm doubtful you'll be able to find a use for all of them by the time it's all said and done. There's just a lot of characters that exist. Heck, you can still bring out Dilmir's parents as far as I'm aware.

My main criticism of this story—other than some of the characters just being... there—is that the second half is mostly just a repeat of the first half. Aranthar attacks and triumphs without difficulty. You could've easily written out Elnessar entirely and just had more buildup to the fight at Eld'rin instead. Or if Aranthar had attacked Elnessar first and then come to Eld'rin, it would've basically been the same, maybe even better with them hoping to rely on the Curse this time. I dunno, maybe it's because the characters treat the situation as if it will be different it stands out to me. They're all like "We may have lost at Eld'rin but this other place will be a different story", and I have no idea why they think that will be the case.

As I said before they basically have no plan and so it's not that terribly surprising when it doesn't work. I'd have been surprised if it did work, because I never thought fighting in a big tree would make the difference against Aranthar. Even if there hadn't been Asdelarcen and wolves, I don't know what they would've done against Aranthar. What was their plan to break his shield? They never seemed to give any thought to the most important thing about defeating him.

I fully expected them to defeat Aranthar this story, but maybe it's good that they didn't because as is I don't think they could've done so in any way that would've made me happy with their complete lack of strategy regarding him, not in any way that wouldn't have felt cheap somehow. The Eld'rin battle was good because they had their plan and I was curious what way it would go. But the second battle had me wondering what they were thinking. Maybe if you had given them something other than the poison, something that would make it seem like they could for sure break his shield this time, it would've been different.

But this is just one thing: their backs were to the wall and I couldn't say if it would be better to hide all across the forests rather than bunker up in one place. Probably would be, maybe, I'm not sure. It seems like that will work for our heroes right now, but maybe only because there's so few of them now.

As far as moving forward, I've got no clue what I expect to see, other than a big time jump maybe. Now that you've genocided 90% of Feylund I got no idea what the heroes are expected to do, other than maybe lift the Curse and spend a few years training a small army of Uncursed elves. Or perhaps Aranthar will pull a Thanos and really destroy his own magic now that his task is done: to be easily defeated but still leaving a massive scar in his wake. For what I'd personally like to see, I will only say that I do find the Curse vs Uncursed debate to be more interesting than the fight against Aranthar. I think that to see Dilmir have to choose between Eltuthar, Alfimir, or some third path once the dust has cleared would be a more fitting climax for this series than a big battle against a clear bad guy that he hasn't shared a single line of dialogue with.

As for where I myself stand on that debate, all I will say is that if Dilmir wasn't willing to risk giving the elves simple shields in Ch. 8—even though he knew Aranthar was coming—I don't know how they expect to maintain order when everyone has their magic completely unleashed.

Very well done, you took what I wanted to see and really ran with it. I'm curious how the others will react to it.

~TAF

[TGRF]

Your thoughts were so long that I literally had lunch in the middle of reading them. But that's a good thing, I love the detail. I also have quite a bit in the form of replies:

Spoiler Alert!

I guess somehow Uncursed elves have some kind of base Power Level that is both detectible and unrelated to their current magic capabilities? Are you born with this Power Level, and can it be increased or is it just inherent?

The way magic works should be fairly clear be now - if it isn't then I need to really take the time to explain it in the final book because it's definitely important. Here's a summary:

Spoiler Alert!

Elves begin absorbing magic from the world around them the instant they are born. For Uncursed elves, this absorption never stops. A 10-yo will have half as much magic as a 20-yo. While there is no in-story unit of measurement for magic, I measure it through years - meaning 1 year of magic is how much magic an elf naturally absorbs in a year.

The Curse LIMITS elves to a low number of years' worth of magic. This is enough to allow them to cast spells, but not enough to allow them to extend their magic beyond themselves and go crazy. There is an exact number, but I don't like putting exact numbers here, because then it turns the whole question of how to beat Aranthar into a math problem.

Astia, and all other Uncursed elves who stopped using their magic, still HAVE the magic within them. It is easily sensed by another Uncursed elf. They have however lost the ability to control all of that magic, due to a lack of practice. Dilmir is lucky that he was forced to use his magic when he was, otherwise the same fate might have befallen him.

I believe the question about increasing magic was dealt with at the end of the story.

The only real problem is that the Alfimir-Eltuthar conflict is far more interesting than the Aranthar one.

I'll definitely be working on this. Ideally, the two conflicts should hinge on each other. Alfimir vs Eltuthar is thematically similar to Aranthar vs Dilmir. At least... it was until Dilmir changed his mind. So the conflicts should be tied together... I'll work on that in the final book.

I don't know if instantly trying to appeal to Aranthar is a good idea. I'm guessing the guy who's lived 1000 years and has been trying to wipe out the elves for 800 of those years isn't going to change his mind any time soon.

That would be 250 years and approximately 200-ish of those years. As stated in the Curse. Aranthar's powerful, but he's not THAT powerful.

Now that Dilmir has made up his mind on being pro-Curse, using Ilrin PoV chapters as a way to subtly build her as anti-Curse is a good way to set up what will inevitably be a conflict later, but also to make sure the reader isn't constantly being shown everything through that one lens.

Cool... but once again not my intention. It's amazing to me how often my writing has success in areas I never tried for - or sometimes never even knew about.

I wonder where Denethor went. He was listed as one of the survivors, but I'm not sure which group he went with when they split up.

He went to Elnnesar. He's alive. He has a part to play in all this yet.

If Dilmir can just stop all the wolves' hearts, does that mean Aranthar could just do the same to all of them? He's able to enchant the air for miles around, and he can assumedly override the magic even of the elves' own bodies. Certainly Dilmir has been able to override Ilrin when teleporting her around.

In-Story explanation: The elves don't know all the rules of magic. A lot about the way magic works can be misinterpreted by them (even by Eltuthar and Aranthar), and there's a lot they don't even know. Only the dwarves might be able to set them straight.

During the Civil War, Eltuthar found that, while he could stretch his magic out over wolves and enchant them all at once (even as Dilmir did), he could not do the same to elves. He could only enchant elves directly who were nearby, all those beyond a certain point remained somehow unable to be effected.

The same holds true for Aranthar, who was able to kill Ilrin's parents and hold Ilrin herself, but not slay the entire population of Eld'rin with a thought. This is the case for both Eltuthar and Dilmir, and any Uncursed elf.

Aranthar might know why this is so, but Eltuthar does not. It is clear that there is some interaction between magic being stretched out past a certain distance, and that same magic trying to enchant a person who also has magic. But what that connection is exactly, remains unknown.

Eltuthar did not tell this to Dilmir at Arath Imil, not wanting to tell him how to most effectively commit genocide against the wolves or humans. However, Dilmir, through his own experiments, has discovered the truth. This is why he was unsurprised by what he did to the wolves, and why he's never tried to mass-enchant elves past a certain distance. He knows it won't work.

Meta-Explanation: This is a result of the magic system being WAY too overpowered to possibly last for a whole series. It was not thought out enough when I created it for Dilmir 1, unfortunately yielding scenarios like this where, following the original rules of magic, Aranthar (and Dilmir) totally could have just immolated the entire population of cities with their minds. Therefore, rules have needed to be added over time.

I DO know the reason this is so; the rule does exist.

Give the guy a chance it's not like he's some kind of Super-Judas! You were quick enough to forgive burnt-down-your-favorite-place Alfimir and literally-sold-you-out Denethor without constantly giving them the stink-eye 24/7.

She hasn't forgiven them squat. The difference is that Alfimir and Delarthen aren't trying to be friends with her. She's perfectly fine with their current status as personal enemies. If Aldir would leave her alone, she would treat him the same way.

I guess this is to be expected of a villain, but Aranthar's reasoning for why he's doing what he's doing is rather circular and nonsensical. He was rejected for being too powerful with magic and now in order to get revenge he's basically going to do what the Council that rejected him would ultimately want anyway. He's essentially like Eltuthar in origin, but Eltuthar's ambitions make sense. Maybe there's a bunch of self-loathing involved with Aranthar to the point that it's the conflict that arises from magic moreso than the magic itself that he wants to eradicate.

Trying to find a way to show Aranthar's motivations in a way which also made sense and didn't seem forced proved to be a lot harder than I anticipated; I'm definitely looking for a way to better handle this in the final book.

Also it's weird that he doesn't actually want to eliminate all the elves, since he plans to spare himself and his Asdelarcen, only sealing all their magic. Hypothetically if he gets to Elnnesar and all of them are like "Nah mate we all want to join the Asdelarcen" will he just take their magic and call it a day? And then they can all just bludgeon him to death? How long does Aranthar and his crew plan to make it without magic before the wolves come and kill them all? Maybe he's lying about the no-magic thing or just doesn't much care what befalls elvenkind afterwards.

Honestly I could comment on this, but I'm not going to because Aranthar's motivations, while defined in my head, could certainly get MORE defined in the fourth book. But without knowing yet how that might play out, I don't want to say anything which might later lock me into a narrative.

I will say that he probably isn't planning on offering the elves a chance to join up or anything. Alfimir was a special case, coming to him and already having proven through the years that he's basically on the same page as Aranthar.

I don't know if this is intentional, or if there is any method behind your Elven language, but Elnnesar sounds extremely similar to Elessar from LotR.

No... I don't actually know what Elessar is... rings a faint bell... someone's name?

How do you know that? There's no reason he couldn't attack at night. Unless for some reason Aranthar for all his mastery can't find a way to see in the dark, and if that is the case you all need to go attack him right away.

Armies need time to rest and prepare once they reach the battlefield. There's a reason medieval armies set up camp once they met, and didn't just attack immediately. That being said... Aranthar's slow pace certainly hasn't been taxing... best not to dwell on these things, perhaps.

I can't tell if this is a typo or not. Did Dilmir mean to say Inilidin? Or does he want all three of them to leave? I dunno.

Not a typo, he wants all three to leave. I guess Inilidin was assumed when I was writing?

This is a strange thing for Ilrin to think after everything we've just seen from her looking at the city.

True... I think I was focused on trying to write the atmosphere rather than on where Ilrin had just been.

I'm surprised they didn't go north since that's where the one guy in Ch. 1 went, and maybe they'd meet his descendants there and form an army or something, I dunno. Maybe that was just to explain where Dilmir's line came from.

It was, at least in this story. And North is very much on the table. They just haven't gone anywhere yet.

Again I'm really shocked you didn't kill Inilidin in this, now knowing her fate in the original Dilmir 2. There were certainly plenty of reasons for Aranthar to kill her. She remains a non-character, but an alive non-character.

Why would Aranthar kill her? The best reason would simply be because he has no reason not to kill her, but that's hardly a reason. I'm actually curious what Aranthar's reasons might be. Believe me, I looked for them, and couldn't find them. Pray do tell.

Meanwhile...

Inilidin (and Endir) remain sources of difficulties for me. They are carry-overs from the original book 2, which means they never had a purpose going into these rewrites. However, I'll definitely be remedying that in the final book, giving them reasons for being there. Same goes for Aimim - she is definitely a non-character, and always has been.

Concerning killing characters off - This was something I was aware of while developing. Ever since Apocalypse, I've been wary of letting everyone just make it out alive with virtually no lasting losses. The trouble is that I couldn't find any kind of balance between killing people off, and avoiding the feeling of them being canon fodder. Additionally, the deaths of any of the core 'crew' really had no place, as they would have had virtually no effect on Dilmir, except to reinforce what he was already feeling. Another lesson I've learned is to never just kill someone for the sake of it - it has to mean something and have an impact on the story. No death would have done that. None of this applies to Astia of course, or Ilrin's parents.

Book 4 is of course a clean slate.

The crazy thing about you rating this a 9? When I posted it, I considered it the worst of the three stories so far. It felt very close to Curse, possibly a bit better, seeming to suffer from many of the same problems. Dilmir in Curse reacts a lot, not knowing what to do, there's repetitive action, and he just kind of floats from plot point to plot point. In this story, he reacts a lot, not knowing what to do, there's repetitive action (Aranthar destroys two cities back to back), and he just kind of floats from plot point to plot point. So you can imagine my surprise when you started really enjoying the early chapters.

Aldir has just been hanging around for the entire story. Even Denethor is still out there somewhere. But I'm doubtful you'll be able to find a use for all of them by the time it's all said and done. There's just a lot of characters that exist.

Oh ye of little faith.

I'm obviously super stoked about the rating. At this point, being so close to writing my first novel, I really wanted to get some solid fan fiction in with high ratings, on the off-chance that a future publisher actually looks at any of it.

As for the final installment, I'm definitely taking all of your input into consideration. You have a lot of good points and reactions, and I already have some good ideas for where the story should go (as in the middle - the end I already have sorted). I definitely want to incorporate all of the characters we have, and find uses for them all. And I definitely want to work on connecting Aranthar with the central question more. He's not quite as black as he might seem in this story (something I tried - and evidently failed - to convey), so I'll definitely be working on showing his true colors more before the conclusion.

~TGRF.

[TheAverageFan]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by The Grim Reaper's Friend

The way magic works should be fairly clear be now - if it isn't then I need to really take the time to explain it in the final book because it's definitely important. Here's a summary:

I didn't know this was how things work. It makes sense then why Astir was more powerful to Dilmir's eyes: she's older.

I'll definitely be working on this. Ideally, the two conflicts should hinge on each other. Alfimir vs Eltuthar is thematically similar to Aranthar vs Dilmir. At least... it was until Dilmir changed his mind. So the conflicts should be tied together... I'll work on that in the final book.

I mean, they are tied, but I think Alfimir and Eltuthar are better characters and thus have the better conflict. They are both very human (pun intended), morally gray villains (I think it's safe to say they both are willing to do underhanded things to get what they want, and that to me makes them both villains by definition), both of whom have been Dilmir's allies at one point. They're also both vulnerable characters which makes them more interesting to me than Dilmir (protagonist, likely to survive) and Aranthar (seems pretty indestructible (so far) but will almost certainly die). Their battle will be epic no doubt, but those other two remain more interesting to me, especially since I got no clue what will come of their feud.

Cool... but once again not my intention. It's amazing to me how often my writing has success in areas I never tried for - or sometimes never even knew about.

You're supposed to say "ah yes of course just as I planned"

He went to Elnnesar. He's alive. He has a part to play in all this yet.

O.o Don't tell me we get more Denethor?? If he surrenders and becomes Aranthar's Wormtongue and ends up killing him I'll give the story an 11. Will Denethor become the final boss of Dilmir 4? Will the Council finally get its hour?

Trying to find a way to show Aranthar's motivations in a way which also made sense and didn't seem forced proved to be a lot harder than I anticipated; I'm definitely looking for a way to better handle this in the final book.

Well he doesn't talk to his enemies, and he has no lieutenants to talk to (you will see this should I ever release Too Much Home Work Sequel), so it is hard to get stuff across.

No... I don't actually know what Elessar is... rings a faint bell... someone's name?

Elessar is Aragorn's Elven name.

Why would Aranthar kill her? The best reason would simply be because he has no reason not to kill her, but that's hardly a reason. I'm actually curious what Aranthar's reasons might be. Believe me, I looked for them, and couldn't find them. Pray do tell.

That he has no reason not to kill her is the reason. Aranthar has vowed to kill all the elves. Inilidin is an elf. Therefore...

Inilidin (and Endir) remain sources of difficulties for me. They are carry-overs from the original book 2, which means they never had a purpose going into these rewrites. However, I'll definitely be remedying that in the final book, giving them reasons for being there. Same goes for Aimim - she is definitely a non-character, and always has been.

That's fine. They are definitely minor characters (Inilidin is mildly nice, Endir is mildly jokey, etc.) We just don't spend enough time with them, there's not enough investment we can get out of them. You would need chapters with them, maybe even PoVs with them, to get good quality characterization out of them. I do like to joke about it tho.

Concerning killing characters off - This was something I was aware of while developing. Ever since Apocalypse, I've been wary of letting everyone just make it out alive with virtually no lasting losses. The trouble is that I couldn't find any kind of balance between killing people off, and avoiding the feeling of them being canon fodder. Additionally, the deaths of any of the core 'crew' really had no place, as they would have had virtually no effect on Dilmir, except to reinforce what he was already feeling. Another lesson I've learned is to never just kill someone for the sake of it - it has to mean something and have an impact on the story. No death would have done that. None of this applies to Astia of course, or Ilrin's parents.

Well, it does genuinely add to the drama (at the cost of losing a character and all the potential that character could contribute). It's strange that so much of Feylund should be destroyed, save for by chance everyone we know. We need people we know to die to really feel that impact: selfish as that sounds (it's a subconscious thing).

The crazy thing about you rating this a 9? When I posted it, I considered it the worst of the three stories so far. It felt very close to Curse, possibly a bit better, seeming to suffer from many of the same problems. Dilmir in Curse reacts a lot, not knowing what to do, there's repetitive action, and he just kind of floats from plot point to plot point. In this story, he reacts a lot, not knowing what to do, there's repetitive action (Aranthar destroys two cities back to back), and he just kind of floats from plot point to plot point. So you can imagine my surprise when you started really enjoying the early chapters.

Is this incidental quality? Did you not see what you were building with Dilmir's internal conflict? Or is it impostor syndrome? If not, try to replicate this lack of quality for next time.

As for the final installment, I'm definitely taking all of your input into consideration. You have a lot of good points and reactions, and I already have some good ideas for where the story should go (as in the middle - the end I already have sorted). I definitely want to incorporate all of the characters we have, and find uses for them all. And I definitely want to work on connecting Aranthar with the central question more. He's not quite as black as he might seem in this story (something I tried - and evidently failed - to convey), so I'll definitely be working on showing his true colors more before the conclusion.

As usual don't take my word too much into consideration, if it goes against your main vision then don't cave into fan demands. They don't always know what they're talking about.


Lastly I should say that I didn't say this about Aranthar: but that he represents a third viewpoint: that magic should end, versus Eltuthar (Uncursed), and Alfimir and Dilmir (Cursed). So there are three perspectives at play here, not two.

~TAF ,

[TGRF]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

Is this incidental quality? Did you not see what you were building with Dilmir's internal conflict? Or is it impostor syndrome? If not, try to replicate this lack of quality for next time.

Will do.

Seriously though... no, if anything I thought Dilmir's constant internal debating would come across as repetitive and circular. He brings up the same doubts over and over without really getting anywhere. During the editing phase, I even had a note to myself to try and cut down on the internalization some because I thought there was so much of it. That was something I (apparently fortunately) never actually got to.

I think perhaps what's going on here is a combination of my paranoia of preaching thanks to HiS, and your appreciation of moral dilemmas with no clear-cut right or wrong side. If I had to guess.

~TGRF.

[TheAverageFan]

Perhaps the latter. Do not underestimate the narrative value of the human heart in conflict with itself. It's more compelling than any zombie army or vampire could ever be.

~TAF

[TheAverageFan]

...Hey wait a minute didn't Dilmir's hand fall off or something at the end of the last story? Did anything ever come of that I don't recall a single mention of having to be left-handed in this one

~TAF

[TGRF]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

...Hey wait a minute didn't Dilmir's hand fall off or something at the end of the last story? Did anything ever come of that I don't recall a single mention of having to be left-handed in this one

~TAF

His hand got injured, and it was said he'd have to learn to use his left for some things, but to be honest I kind of forgot about it. That being said, it makes sense from his point of view: learning to use his left hand over his right is miniscule in comparison to the internal dilemma he was facing. Thus one could be forgiven for neglecting to mention it.

Obviously it kind of negates any sense of loss incurred by the damage to said hand, so that's not great, but...

~TGRF, who would have - and will - include it if he needs to detail any task which would specifically use the right hand. Such as training.

[AMIS]

Just started reading this...Went through 10 chapters. I'll have to stop for a while.

So far it's a solid story of destruction. I'll start up again probably tomorrow morning.

[AMIS]

Wow.

Well written, solidly paced and thought provoking.

@The Grim Reaper's Friend I have one thought that may help improve it...and even it's simply a niggling little criticism so feel free to ignore.

Spoiler Alert!

In the scene in which Alfimir has 'peace' talks with Aranthar, he's let go because of Aranthar honoring the white flag.

I would have preferred that had Alfy question this and Aranthar tell him the reason behind honoring the flag or even think to his past why he's honoring it and tell Alfy he'll kill him soon enough anyway.

Looking forward to the next!

[TGRF]

Originally Posted by AMIS

Spoiler Alert!

I would have preferred that had Alfy question this and Aranthar tell him the reason behind honoring the flag or even think to his past why he's honoring it and tell Alfy he'll kill him soon enough anyway.

Glad you enjoyed it AMIS! I'm not sure I'm understanding what you're saying in the above though... you would have preferred Alfimir to ask why Aranthar will let him go so that Aranthar could give a deeper reason? Only for Aranthar to then say he'll him later anyway? How come?

~TGRF.