The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

[Tmac2200]

I'm curious if there would be any support for a full fledged customs project, similar to C3V, C3G, SoV, ect that primarily worked with unpainted minis. Maybe each figure would have a simple paint guide. I don't know how many people on heroscapers paints, but if enough do it might be worthwhile.

[Pumpkin_King]

I would be slightly interested in such a project, but that’s a bigger time investment than I can make at the moment, haha.

[Astroking112]

My apologies for only responding about a week later, but I think that I could elaborate a little more while preparations for the project continue on our end.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I'm not sure what you mean about putting something under the "VC umbrella." You don't need us, and trying to get a consensus about approving a unit inside the C3V, absent the firm structure of the SoV (or something very much like it) is unlikely be successful.

By the "VC umbrella," I meant being recognized by C3V/SoV, both of which are the largest customs projects that currently exist for classic HeroScape. We can make excellent units on our own, but they could be easily overshadowed in that case.

Say, for example, that three years later, someone doesn't like part of a central Sgt. Drake-esque figure that we create. They decide to make their own unit with the sculpt, submit it to SoV, and it eventually passes. Suddenly, all of the scenarios and synergies that we establish in this set don't play nicely with VC anymore. People looking to get into the customs community, which is my personal goal here, will end up being more confused than they otherwise would've been.

I don't think that being accepted by VC is necessary to make a great unit by any stretch of the imagination. However, our goal here isn't only to make great units, but to expand the playerbase for VC and make it more approachable as a whole.

Please just do your thing. I encourage you (whoever it is) to have a real, disciplined organizational structure. I do not think the C3V or the C3G would have been able to be productive for all the years those two have been productive, but for their structure.

The alternative to having an organized large workshop is to have a small one. The SoV is relatively unstructured, and the various map-approving groups have all been unstructured. Which has suited all of them, because they are small.

My sense from FS's post is that a group focused on these may already exist. Great! Make sure it's set up the way you want and have at it. You don't need anything from anyone else, but many of us will be happy to pitch in somehow as needed, if you ask.

I will say that one way this could work is just to put these units together as a slow train to the SoV. Over time, they should all get the C3V/SoV approval you want. It can be done. Otherwise, just don't worry about us at all, and do a good job.

We've been working on plans for getting this done, and we'll set up the project here on the forums when we're ready. I never thought that C3V alone should make all of these units for all of the reasons outlined in this thread, and we'll be happy to involve the community given that it doesn't have to be made within one of the existing structures.

The slow train to SoV is something that we've discussed, to ensure that there won't be overlapping designs or broken synergies added to break the set in the future, but designing for SoV isn't the main goal of the project. My concern there is that these units would be presented individually to the fans (since its custom for SoV approved units to have their own release) instead of as a box set.

Originally Posted by Tmac2200

I'm curious if there would be any support for a full fledged customs project, similar to C3V, C3G, SoV, ect that primarily worked with unpainted minis. Maybe each figure would have a simple paint guide. I don't know how many people on heroscapers paints, but if enough do it might be worthwhile.

I can't paint to save my life. I'm a little more lenient on some unpainted figures than others (it bothers me only slightly more than a HeroClix base does), but I'm not convinced that there would be enough support for two continuous large creation projects in the long-term.

[caps]

This thread was persuasive. Let me know what I can do to help.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

This thread was persuasive. Let me know what I can do to help.

I know I would be interested in at least seeing where this conversation was happening. What would the customs look like? Or what would a project look like? Links to those threads, or those whatevers, would be helpful for all those interested.

Lots of good ideas go nowhere, in rooms full of interested people staring at each other and doing nothing.

[Pumpkin_King]

We're mainly having the conversation in discord, at the moment. The link is in my signature. We fully intend on taking the project back to the forums for transparency and archival reasons once we're ready!

[Astroking112]

@NecroBlade put up an excellent introduction post to the project here! If you're interested, check it out to see how we'll be proceeding with a community-driven Master Set!

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

My apologies for only responding about a week later, but I think that I could elaborate a little more while preparations for the project continue on our end.

By the "VC umbrella," I meant being recognized by C3V/SoV, both of which are the largest customs projects that currently exist for classic HeroScape. We can make excellent units on our own, but they could be easily overshadowed in that case.

Say, for example, that three years later, someone doesn't like part of a central Sgt. Drake-esque figure that we create. They decide to make their own unit with the sculpt, submit it to SoV, and it eventually passes. Suddenly, all of the scenarios and synergies that we establish in this set don't play nicely with VC anymore. People looking to get into the customs community, which is my personal goal here, will end up being more confused than they otherwise would've been.

I don't think that being accepted by VC is necessary to make a great unit by any stretch of the imagination. However, our goal here isn't only to make great units, but to expand the playerbase for VC and make it more approachable as a whole.

We've been working on plans for getting this done, and we'll set up the project here on the forums when we're ready. I never thought that C3V alone should make all of these units for all of the reasons outlined in this thread, and we'll be happy to involve the community given that it doesn't have to be made within one of the existing structures.

The slow train to SoV is something that we've discussed, to ensure that there won't be overlapping designs or broken synergies added to break the set in the future, but designing for SoV isn't the main goal of the project. My concern there is that these units would be presented individually to the fans (since its custom for SoV approved units to have their own release) instead of as a box set.

I can't paint to save my life. I'm a little more lenient on some unpainted figures than others (it bothers me only slightly more than a HeroClix base does), but I'm not convinced that there would be enough support for two continuous large creation projects in the long-term.

Even though there are some reservations about painting figures or using figures that would need painted, I dont really see it as being too crazy of an idea about using all the unpainted minis in these sets. If VC is using some unpainted minis and even 3d printed minis in upcoming releases, along with the mods and paints of C3G minis here lately, I dont see the problem with doing it here either. Seems a shame to only use 1/3 of the figures in the boxes. Those are my pennies. I personally dont have the time to make new characters but I wouldnt mind reusing my painted figures with you guys cards.

[All Your Pie]

For what it's worth, TREX, I tend to agree. The only particularly strong reason for not using the unpainted figures in each box is to attempt SoV compatibility, which I don't find to be a compelling need for a separate project. Using all the miniatures would also allow us to design them by packaged set rather than by combining all three, or at the very least allow people with only one set to have a lot of playable options even if that box isn't itself designed as the master set.

Among project leads, though, I'm in the minority in this point. Rest assured, however, that I intend to push the project into designing every figure in these boxes eventually, and ensure that those designs maintain the same standard of quality as the ones that came before. Similarly, I intend to push against weaker interpretations of the figures that have to make logical leaps in order to justify their unpainted status.

[flameslayer93]

Some leads are eager to work on the rest of the minis, likely by applying paint, but for right now the goal is to get AotV done. There’s enough units to work on anyway.

We will be watching what the C3V/SoV plans to do with unpainted/modded/printed figures in the future though.

[superfrog]

The current position of VC is that any unpainted alternatives should be in addition to a widely available painted figure.

So far, we have announced 2 alternates (the common and the uncommon tree guys) in order to augment their availability, so that the faction as a whole will be playable by our current fans.

I hope to see really cool designs with these AotP unpainted figures, but VC's unpainted alternatives don't signal a shift away from our commitment to using painted figures.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by TREX

Even though there are some reservations about painting figures or using figures that would need painted, I dont really see it as being too crazy of an idea about using all the unpainted minis in these sets. If VC is using some unpainted minis and even 3d printed minis in upcoming releases, along with the mods and paints of C3G minis here lately, I dont see the problem with doing it here either. Seems a shame to only use 1/3 of the figures in the boxes. Those are my pennies. I personally dont have the time to make new characters but I wouldnt mind reusing my painted figures with you guys cards.

There is some support in the current cast of Pod Leaders to continue the project to finish the Arena of the Planeswalkers sets after we complete the designs that could fit into VC as-is, but the goal of the project is to make a VC-compliant Master Set. As such, the core of our project involves living shadows, elementals, illusions, statues, and other things that are meant to be unpainted.

If there is a significant interest for a community project using figures designed to be painted, then I would encourage those people to start the project as they see fit. That is inherently not our goal here, though. We want to introduce people into VC and expand it, so we are following some of the same ideology.

Originally Posted by All Your Pie

For what it's worth, TREX, I tend to agree. The only particularly strong reason for not using the unpainted figures in each box is to attempt SoV compatibility, which I don't find to be a compelling need for a separate project. Using all the miniatures would also allow us to design them by packaged set rather than by combining all three, or at the very least allow people with only one set to have a lot of playable options even if that box isn't itself designed as the master set.

Among project leads, though, I'm in the minority in this point. Rest assured, however, that I intend to push the project into designing every figure in these boxes eventually, and ensure that those designs maintain the same standard of quality as the ones that came before. Similarly, I intend to push against weaker interpretations of the figures that have to make logical leaps in order to justify their unpainted status.

SoV submissions have only been discussed as a potential way of ensuring that VC compatibility is met on both ends. I also hope that no designers will try to design solely for SoV, and that they will prioritize making great (and justified) designs first and foremost.

I have no qualms with the project expanding onto the less justifiable miniatures after the core set is done, so long as the integrity of the main Master Set is kept intact. Any of those figures should be a bonus to the core set in my eyes; a fantastic one for people to take advantage of, but nothing that makes our shadows not shadows or that doesn't meet the same level of quality we're aiming to achieve.