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  #1  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:11 PM
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Lightbulb Justice League Design *Brainstorming*

Martian Manhunter II: (completed)
Spoiler Alert!


Batman III: (completed)
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Cyborg II: (completed)
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Superman III: (completed)
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Previous Directions Considered:
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Goal: Find a way to synergize the Justice League.

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:17 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:24 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Great idea, quozl! I'll bring my main question from the other thread over:

"What makes the Justice League unique? What makes its members different from other teams?"

For me, one of the top three ways they're unique has to be that they consist of Heroes from the DCU. But you've all heard my take on that one.

What else? johnny mentions a team of individuals (which is both true and a bit of a contradiction in terms). How can that be realized in practice?

What else have we got? What else sums up the essence of the Justice League beyond "team of individuals" and "made up of DCU heroes"? What else separates them from the Avengers and X-Men? Maybe they play by the rules more? They typically have secret identities to protect? Just spitballing here ... what do you guys think? What else?

I'll add a new one: they're typically more inspiring to the general public and held up to iconic, God-like status. I don't know how that can work compared to other synergies, though. More of a connection to/emphasis on Civilians? Or would that get too far off-base?

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:45 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

I had almost suggested that this stuff get ported away from the regular public design post myself. It kind of needs to have an OP so that we can keep track of it all.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 03:51 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Some more ideas as to what might "define" the Justice League:

Use of Boomtube technology (Cyborg ftw!)

Idea of their being a Pantheon of Gods of sorts (idea of being symbols of something greater, inspiring others around them in unique ways – maybe as results of “feats” to borrow from initiation idea?)

Idea that they don’t normally work together, so much as respond to crises (Event Hero bonuses?)

Iconic Leaders: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 04:59 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

So here's a few ideas since the current direction isn't favored:

First, I think it's worth asking, debating, and polling on who exactly is eligible to receive a new version to help supplement/support the Justice League synergy.

Some considerable names that should be discussed and weighed in on(from most prominent to least, but all worth considering):
Spoiler Alert!


A general consensus, and a common ground, needs to be reached and agreed upon on who is eligible and worthy enough to receive a new version, to aid the actual synergy. Once that is reached, it'd really help dictate and add direction. We need to know who is even worth discussing, because clearly not everyone in that list is getting a new version to tie in more synergy. It's important that we know our boundaries, before we start building an actual foundation here. So start making some cases and expressing your take.

Personally, I believe to do something unique here, something special, and cover new ground, the more cards that have a power directly tied to the group, the bigger and more unique this thing becomes. It's uncharted territory, to tie several units together towards a common goal, all designed and discussed at once. If you want to use phrases like "Rome wasn't built in a day" and "The Justice League is the holy grail", then prove it by being willing to see several designs made to be played together from the start, not just shoe horned in by 1 leader figure offering a simple bonus or multiple turns.

If this is doable, I say we open up our willingness to see just about any if not all of these units receive new versions, and each with the same class of Justice League. That's 1 unique thing, that's not only future proofing, but it negates the need for universal markers on several cards. I'm thinking you make 7-10 cards with 1 power that directly gives a unique boost to those with the class of Justice League. Each power is representational of the character's personality, power, and role in the group. So then it comes down to when drafting your army, depending on the point value of your army, determines how big your league is.

I know what you're thinking. "But this isn't C3G, because these units will only synergize with each other, and I can't have _____ in the league.". Well, here's the common ground. Have each figure able to choose a Unique Hero to make their class Justice League instead of what is listed on their card. This already eliminates a lot of overlapping synergies between classes. So you can have your Thor in your JLA. Perhaps that's too much? Well then, have it so only specific members of the JLA can recruit another to the class of Justice League, such as the ones that make the most sense(The big 3 + MM?). Idk, that's just spit-balling.

Ultimately, you end up with something like(using Martian Manhunter II for example):

JUSTICE LEAGUE RECRUITMENT
At the start of the game, you may choose 1 Unique Hero you control. For the entire game, their class is Justice League instead of what is listed on their card.

Then, you'd follow up with a power on Martian Manhunter's card, that directly gives bonus to Justice League members. These bonuses should all be minor, but specifically directed at aiding specific abilities other Justice League members have(some members may require more thought than others).

JUSTICE LEAGUE PRECOGNITION
When rolling for initiative, add 1 to your roll for each Justice League Hero you control. If a Justice League Hero you control rolls the 20-sided die for a special power, you may add 1 to the roll.

Then add on something that makes Martian Manhunter useful to anyone, not just Justice League units(just going off what I had as an example):

MIND LINK
An opponent may never take control of Martian Manhunter, or any figure you control within 4 spaces of Martian Manhunter. Figures you control are always considered in clear sight of each other.

If you do this with 5-10 cards, some or all with the Justice League recruitment, you're looking at a different synergy, that hasn't been done before. A synergy that not only was created all at once, knowing full well what the others were offering and bringing to the table, but a synergy that can be expanded to include others through the recruitment.

Perhaps that's not enough of a departure for some, or veering away from what some may desire from this, but I think once you see 5-10 designs all get made in-sync with one another, and they are all worked on with an ultimate goal in mind...I think that in itself would be quite different and fresh compared to what we have seen before. Especially if it's the community and the heroes etc. all weighing in and making sure all grounds are covered, all ideas are considered.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:05 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion


I was just about to post that this should have been done from the beginning but was fairly pointless now, without Aggressive Sock.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:07 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

I do like the idea of just rolling with a unique class for them all and doing Justice League specific versions of all the characters you want. It'd be by far the thoroughest way to accomplish your stated goals of encouraging people to play thematic JL figures together, and it wouldn't rehash the markers. (fwiw, I'd go with Justice Leaguer instead of Justice League as the class).

I'm warily anticipating a lot of the same arguments as there were against my DC referencing ability, insomuch as that it's very prescriptive. But, again, that seems to be your goal to a large extent, so .... I think a major unresolved issue is coming together and agreeing on what the goal is/should be.

Personally, I think it's entirely cool and fun to design a core set of Justice Leaguers designed to work well and closely together without a ton of room for other, nonthematic figures. If you want to build unthematic, wacky army builds, you have 600 or so other choices. Why not let the theme nerds get one little group?

That said, there's one other major issue: this is by far the version that requires the most work. By requiring a unique class, it involves doing a Justice League specific version of each character you want to include. Personally, I've never seen work and patience as an issue here, but that's just me. Having goals keeps me excited about things. But I could see it as a downside if you're in the "I want my Justice League and I want it now!" camp.

Food for thought. It's a cool idea, though, for sure. I think we would've really considered "Avenger" as just being a class, rather than using the markers, had we not already used the class on someone else, a non-Avenger, in the game (I forget whom).

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:08 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
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I'm not changing it.

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:10 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
I was just about to post that this should have been done from the beginning
FYI, for those wanting to do something like this in the future, please PM all the heroes and sidekicks the link to your thread in addition to posting the link in the public design thread.

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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:27 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I do like the idea of just rolling with a unique class for them all and doing Justice League specific versions of all the characters you want. It'd be by far the thoroughest way to accomplish your stated goals
I agree. I think that's the magic of what led to 35+ pages of discussion in just 3 and a half weeks. I think people like the idea of units that work so closely together, and the Justice League is overdue.

Quote:
I'm warily anticipating a lot of the same arguments as there were against my DC referencing ability, insomuch as that it's very prescriptive.
Well, here's the compromise, the common ground. Some, if not all(which is where we all need to find out a middle ground), should be able to recruit 1 Unique Hero, and change their class to Justice Leaguer. This would let them in on all the benefits the group is offering, without them being a Justice Leaguer naturally. So people can obtain their fantasy members, while Justice League enthusiasts wanting to use just Justice Leaguers by design, can do so. It's win/win.

Limiting how many can be recruited, limits the crazy possibilities just enough to make sure you're not losing sight of the intended theme, but keeps it open enough to where you can still play _____ within the Justice League, and still receive the same benefits. The down side is, those people you are recruiting, won't be adding a power of their own that is specifically designed to boost the thematic members. The up side is, they will still be a Justice Leaguer by class, thus adding to anything based on number of Justice Leaguers you control, as well as powers specific to Justice Leaguers. I feel this is a fair compromise.

The silver lining is that you'd be able to recruit previous versions of the heroes, to fulfill a certain role if needed. As Ronin and Smithy once suggested.

Quote:
That said, there's one other major issue: this is by far the version that requires the most work. By requiring a unique class, it involves doing a Justice League specific version of each character you want to include.
As long as the ends justify the means.
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Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:42 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

How about DO JL Watchtower that lists every member of the JL and gives them the class of Justice League. Then you have all the members covered instantly. Have MMII or maybe Mr. Terrific II start with the Watchtower or possibly make it draftable.
After that you simply have to create whatever synergy you want the Justice League to have with future designs without having to recreate every card that has been in the JL.

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