Tournament ready wave 9 figures

[Pickledpie]

Good ideas all.

Here's a full Jandar army idea I had:
Repulsors x2
Snipers x2
Zetacron
Raelin
Finn

[killercactus]

Why do we think Mohicans are going to get killed by melee armies again? They lose Concealment, but they still have all the advantages of Range > Melee, and they get stat boosts and bonding. I think they'll be great against melee-based armies - the stat boosts and bonding is better than Concealment any day of the week and twice on Monday (because that's today).

I think they do just fine against a melee screen too - then they get Concealment and stat boosts and bonding, and they're really fast.

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by killercactus

Why do we think Mohicans are going to get killed by melee armies again? They lose Concealment, but they still have all the advantages of Range > Melee, and they get stat boosts and bonding. I think they'll be great against melee-based armies - the stat boosts and bonding is better than Concealment any day of the week and twice on Monday (because that's today).

I think they do just fine against a melee screen too - then they get Concealment and stat boosts and bonding, and they're really fast.

Against melee, the MRT have 3/3 (attack/defense) stats vs 3/4 (KOW), 3/3 (Dwarves), 3/3 (Heavy Gruts which can be boosted to 4/4). Each of these other squads has 4 figures per squad vs 3 figures per squad for the MRT. The other squads have bonding which is as good or better than the MRT. The Mohicans cost more per figure than any of these squads.

Against a melee screen, they will get caught behind rats (in most cases) and will be attacking 4 defense 10 point per figure rats (which will be able to scatter). All the while, they will be attacked and will have 3 defense dice for 23 point per figure MRT's.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Rich10

Against melee, the MRT have 3/3 (attack/defense) stats vs 3/4 (KOW), 3/3 (Dwarves), 3/3 (Heavy Gruts which can be boosted to 4/4). Each of these other squads has 4 figures per squad vs 3 figures per squad for the MRT. The other squads have bonding which is as good or better than the MRT. The Mohicans cost more per figure than any of these squads.

But, they'll get the first attack against all of these squads, and maybe the second attack too, thanks to speed and range. Plus, if you factor in Brave Arrow's very small cost to the whole, they don't really cost that much per figure. Their reinforcements also arrive a lot sooner than the other squads if Mittens is around.

Originally Posted by Rich10

Against a melee screen, they will get caught behind rats (in most cases) and will be attacking 4 defense 10 point per figure rats (which will be able to scatter). All the while, they will be attacked and will have 3 defense dice for 23 point per figure MRT's.

The ones engaged to Rats will be attacking rats, but the ones behind the rats are free to attack whomever. So, you can activate 3 unengaged Mohicans, still get to move Brave Arrow and the Mohicans that are engaged are pretty darn tough to kill from range. If the ranged figures move up to negate Concealment on the engage Mohicans, the ones behind can shoot them.

This is too much theoryscaping though - I need to playtest them some more.

[Jexik]

Originally Posted by Zarovichx

Why is TBR considered to be the worst piece it wave 9? He looks like a steal for his points with his abilities, stats, and 6 life.

In a specific scenario where you have to get somewhere quickly or he'll be able to use his Mind Blast in creative ways, he could be awesome, but on a cramped tournament map, he won't be able to earn his points by killing enemy figures, and he won't be threatening enough to even bother attacking to activate his teleport reinforcements ability. One attack of 4 or a special attack of 3 just isn't all that scary.

[Gromazeka]

For an army I was thinking:
Axegrinders x2-140
Q9-320
Repulsors x2-400
Syvarris-500

Repulsors deal with any rats( or soulborgs), then the Axegrinders charge with 6 move and kill anything large/huge/what ever gets in their way. Q9 give ranged support, Syvarris for clean-up.

[Rich10]

I playtested 2 squads of MRT and BA vs 2 squads of 10th Reg and one squad of Deathreavers.

In the first battle, the MRT rushed into the Rats, got tied up and shot by the 10 Regiment. At the end of the battle, 7 10th Regiment soldiers remained.

In the second battle, I left holes in the rat screen so that the MRT could get in. The problem with the MRT is that once they kill someone that they are engaged to, they lose much of their defense and get killed quickly. Giving the MRT several advantages (first attack and holes in the defense) the 10th Regiment still had 4 soldier and 3 rats left at the end.

Finally, I tried 2 squads of MRT and BA vs 2 squads of 10th Reg. I let the MRT and BA engage the 10th Regiment before any attacks started. The Indians won this battle, but at the end, they only had BA left with one life.

I remain unconvinced about the MRT.

I did a quick playtest with the Dividers and was very impressed. Four squads of Dividers destroyed 2 squads of KOW and Gilbert. I had very lucky cell divide rolls and they might do poorly next time, but they were amazing in this one test. They were really fun to play (having good dice rolls helps that).

[Rÿchean]

Originally Posted by Jexik

In a specific scenario where you have to get somewhere quickly or he'll be able to use his Mind Blast in creative ways, he could be awesome, but on a cramped tournament map, he won't be able to earn his points by killing enemy figures, and he won't be threatening enough to even bother attacking to activate his teleport reinforcements ability. One attack of 4 or a special attack of 3 just isn't all that scary.

Also, I think it speaks to how strong this wave is that TBR is considered the bottom end of it. He is an exceptionally cool figure that can do many things. If he was in wave 3 or 4 he would probably be considered one of the better units in that wave. Wave 9 just rocks!

[mccombju]

Mohican Theoryscape:

I'd like to contribute to the Mohican theoryscaping.

At first glance, the MRT seems to be a combination of the abilities (and limitations) of the Gorillinators and Microcorp Agents.

When designing armies, many people seem to be focusing on their Scout synergies with the Venoc Warlord (and Brave Arrow). While speed and conditional bonding are nice, I am most interested in constructing armies that take advantage of their unique defensive special abilities.

I think the Mohican's could be pretty interesting when combined with the Deathreavers. If the MRT are in Raelin's aura (i.e. 3D) behind a Deathreaver screen, then they have defensive abilities roughly equivalent to or better than Stealth Armour and on par with the Krav's Stealth Dodge (3D).

If the Deathreavers form a front line of engagement and blocking, then the MRT can operate behind said line at their maximum range of 6 (or as close to the maximum as possible).

Opponents who outrange the MRT would be faced with increasingly diminishing returns from their attacks, thanks to Concealment. Typical ranged threats like Stingers and 4th Mass would have difficulty landing ranged attacks on the MRT due to the Deathreaver screen and Concealment.

If the MRT do become engaged, say by the opponent's own figures with Disengagement (e.g. Deathreavers), then the Battle Fury bonus of +1A/+2D to 3A/3D makes the MRT that much more resilient. Additionally, engagement (2 figures) transforms the MRT into a pseudo-melee bonding squad.

In terms of MRT army construction, I think the MRT will be favoured in matchups against ranged common squads. The hurdles that must be overcome by the remainder of an MRT army are as follows:

- Hero killing (esp Q9 and Cyprien)
- Early game Dragon killing (esp. Nilf, Braxas, and Zelrig)
- Defensive special abilities that are triggered by normal attacks (esp the Deathreavers' Scatter)

Accordingly, when I was constructing the following armies, I tried to include either powerful hero-killing squads or versatile hero-killing heroes (preferably Soulborgs re: Cyprien) with special attacks.

Mohican Theoryscape Armies:

3x Reavers + Zetacron:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Raelin - 80
Mohican River Tribe x3 - 210
Zetacron - 60
-----------------------------
470 Points, 24 Hexes

3x Reavers + Atlaga:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Raelin - 80
Mohican River Tribe x3 - 210
Atlaga - 90
-----------------------------
500 Points, 23 Hexes

I prefer the Zetacron (vs. Crixus) for hero-killing purposes in the above army. Melee hero-killers are slow and order marker intensive. Additionally, they can get bogged down and sniped long before they are able to reach their targets. The tradeoff with Zetacron is that you might only get off one shot before he goes down. Atlaga is an interesting hero-killer option and he boosts Raelin's movement by +1. Bolt of Witherwood could be devastating, and Atlaga should be able to get off one attack of 4A or 5A before he goes down.

3x Reavers + Krav:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Raelin - 80
Krav - 100
Mohican River Tribe x2 - 140
Zetacron - 60
-----------------------------
500 Points, 24 Hexes

The difference between this army and one with the Microcorp Agents is that it enables you to fit in more stuff. That is, this army has both 3x Deathreavers AND Raelin boosted Krav (+ Stealth Armour MRT when at range). Zetacron fits nicely as a Soulborg and hero-killer.

3x Reavers + Q10:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Raelin - 80
Major Q10 - 150
Mohican River Tribe x2 - 140
Isamu - 10
-----------------------------
500 Points, 22 Hexes

Major Q10 should be valuable in this army as a means to clear out opponent's Deathreavers, as a hard counter to Cyprien, and as a melee- and hero-killer unit.

2x Reavers + Q10 + Brave Arrow:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Raelin - 80
Major Q10 - 150
Mohican River Tribe x2 - 140
Brave Arrow - 50
-----------------------------
500 Points, 18 Hexes

Again, Q10 reprises his role as the bane of Deathreavers and heroes alike. This time Brave Arrow joins the fray as a filler hero who attempts assassinations and boosts the MRT when battling adjacent figures (e.g. melee).

2x Reavers + Kaemon Awa:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Raelin - 80
Kaemon Awa - 120
Mohican River Tribe x3 - 210
Isamu - 10
-----------------------------
500 Points, 20 Hexes

Although less versatile than Q10, Kaemon Awa largely fills the hero-killing and cleanup role in this army.

2x Reavers + 3x Stingers:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Raelin - 80
Mohican River Tribe x2 - 140
Marro Stingers x3 - 180
Marcu - 20
-----------------------------
500 Points, 25 Hexes

The theory behind the above army is that the Stingers could perform in a hero-killing role as needed, whereas the Deathreavers and MRT would compensate for the Stinger's weak matchups against the 4th Mass, 10th Reg, and Vydar ranged (re: Concealment).

Mohican Concealment Calculations:

Frame of Reference --> Krav Maga Agent's Stealth Dodge:
vs. 3D: 70.3% unit survival (given that skulls were rolled)
vs. 4D: 80.2% unit survival (given that skulls were rolled)
vs. 5D: 86.8% unit survival (given that skulls were rolled)

Frame of Reference --> Microcorp Agent's Stealth Armour:
3A vs. 3D: d20 needed 15-20 --> 64.3% unit survival
3A vs. 4D: d20 needed 15-20 --> 71.5% unit survival
3A vs. 5D: d20 needed 15-20 --> 77.5% unit survival

Frame of Reference --> Normal Defense:
3A vs. 1D: 25.0% unit survival
3A vs. 2D: 37.5% unit survival
3A vs. 3D: 49.1% unit survival **Considered the average surivability in this discussion
3A vs. 4D: 59.3% unit survival
3A vs. 5D: 67.9% unit survival
3A vs. 6D: 75.0% unit survival
3A vs. 7D: 80.8% unit survival
3A vs. 8D: 85.4% unit survival
3A vs. 9D: 88.9% unit survival
3A vs. 9D: 91.7% unit survival

Concealment (3A vs. 1D):
Range 2 --> d20 boost +1 --> d20 needed 18-20 --> 36.2% unit survival
Range 3 --> d20 boost +2 --> d20 needed 17-20 --> 40.0% unit survival
Range 4 --> d20 boost +3 --> d20 needed 16-20 --> 43.7% unit survival
Range 5 --> d20 boost +4 --> d20 needed 15-20 --> 47.5% unit survival
Range 6 --> d20 boost +5 --> d20 needed 14-20 --> 51.2% unit survival
Range 7 --> d20 boost +6 --> d20 needed 13-20 --> 55.0% unit survival
Range 8 --> d20 boost +7 --> d20 needed 12-20 --> 58.7% unit survival
Range 9 --> d20 boost +8 --> d20 needed 11-20 --> 62.5% unit survival

Concealment (3A vs. 3D i.e. 1D +2D from Raelin):
Range 2 --> d20 boost +1 --> d20 needed 18-20 --> 56.7% unit survival
Range 3 --> d20 boost +2 --> d20 needed 17-20 --> 59.2% unit survival
Range 4 --> d20 boost +3 --> d20 needed 16-20 --> 61.8% unit survival
Range 5 --> d20 boost +4 --> d20 needed 15-20 --> 64.3% unit survival
Range 6 --> d20 boost +5 --> d20 needed 14-20 --> 66.9% unit survival
Range 7 --> d20 boost +6 --> d20 needed 13-20 --> 69.4% unit survival
Range 8 --> d20 boost +7 --> d20 needed 12-20 --> 72.0% unit survival
Range 9 --> d20 boost +8 --> d20 needed 11-20 --> 74.5% unit survival

Concealment (3A vs. 5D i.e. 1D +2D from Raelin +2D Battle Fury):
Range 2 --> d20 boost +1 --> d20 needed 18-20 --> 72.7% unit survival
Range 3 --> d20 boost +2 --> d20 needed 17-20 --> 74.3% unit survival
Range 4 --> d20 boost +3 --> d20 needed 16-20 --> 75.9% unit survival
Range 5 --> d20 boost +4 --> d20 needed 15-20 --> 77.5% unit survival
Range 6 --> d20 boost +5 --> d20 needed 14-20 --> 79.1% unit survival
Range 7 --> d20 boost +6 --> d20 needed 13-20 --> 80.7% unit survival
Range 8 --> d20 boost +7 --> d20 needed 12-20 --> 82.3% unit survival
Range 9 --> d20 boost +8 --> d20 needed 11-20 --> 83.9% unit survival

Graphical Representation of Mohican Calculations:







Mohican Concealment Takeaways:

The MRT need to be at range 6 when defending (1D) to have average survivability (i.e. 49.1% chance of survival) when facing ranged figures attacking with 3A.

When the MRT have 2D (e.g. height), they have above average survivabilities of 53.1% and 56.2% when at ranges of 4 and 5, respectively.

The sweet spot for MRT defense dice is 3D. With this number of defense dice, the MRT have 'Above average' (>3D) to 'Great' survivability at any defensive range greater than or equal to 2.

At a range of 5 with 3D, the MRT have the same survivability as the Microcorp Agents i.e. 64.37% vs 3A.

When wielding 4D or 5D, the MRT have defensive capabilities that rival those of the Krav Maga Agents.

Appended Microcorp Agent armies:

3x Reavers + Zetacron:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Zetacron - 60
Microcorp Agents x3 - 300
---------------------------------
480 Points, 23 Hexes

3x Reavers + Krav:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Raelin - 80
Krav - 100
Microcorp Agents x2 - 200
-----------------------------
500 Points, 24 Hexes

3x Reavers + Krav:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Krav - 100
Microcorp Agents x2 - 200
Zetacron - 60
-----------------------------
480 Points, 23 Hexes

3x Reavers + Q10:
Deathreavers x3 - 120
Major Q10 - 150
Microcorp Agents x2 - 200
Isamu - 10
-----------------------------
480 Points, 21 Hexes

2x Reavers + Q10 + Brave Arrow:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Raelin - 80
Major Q10 - 150
Microcorp Agents x2 - 200
Marro Warriors - 50
-----------------------------
480 Points, 20 Hexes

2x Reavers + Kaemon Awa:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Kaemon Awa - 120
Mohican River Tribe x3 - 210
-----------------------------
500 Points, 18 Hexes

[Pickledpie]

Originally Posted by mccombju

2x Reavers + Q10 + Brave Arrow:
Deathreavers x2 - 80
Raelin - 80
Major Q10 - 150
Mohican River Tribe x2 - 140
Brave Arrow - 50
-----------------------------
500 Points, 18 Hexes

Again, Q10 reprises his role as the bane of Deathreavers and heroes alike. This time Brave Arrow joins the fray as a filler hero who attempts assassinations and boosts the MRT when battling adjacent figures (e.g. melee).

Jeez your post about took up the whole page!
Great food for thought though, + rep.

The army listed above is my favorite, because
1. It works like you said and
2. I can make it with the figures I have. Heh, I need more commons...

[killercactus]

If Rich10 is indeed correct that Mohicans fall to Deathreavers, what about replacing the commonly seen Vipers in the 500 point build with Repulsors? Or with Kaemon Awa? Maybe that solves the Deathreaver issue....?

Also, Rich10, how were you rolling for Concealment?

[Aldin]

Yup, range and height for the MRT - Raelin if available. The reason I may like them against WTF is that they can hang back and shoot from the edge of the WTF units' range - presumably forcing the WTFers to move if they want to fire with four figs. Fun post, mccombju

~Aldin, who wants to try 4xMRT+Atlaga+Raelin