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  #5653  
Old March 29th, 2018, 03:54 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I don't really see the "need" of another troll, but I love me some terrain dependent figures. I don't see anything technically wrong, and he looks fun on swamp.

Yeah to review.

Having him not get a bonus on figures above on an overhanging Road, seems like a missed opportunity, though.


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  #5654  
Old March 29th, 2018, 03:55 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Talk me through the Valhalla trolls. I can tell he has a different look than the D&D trolls, and from the Feylund trolls. I know that trolls from Valhalla are mentioned in the lore. It just seems odd to me that he has the signature power of the D&D trolls (Regenerate) even though he's not one.
I guess I never really separated the two, lumping all trolls into one category ...but I guess you’re right that there is a distinct difference. The thematic, “lore” aspect of this design was more centered on the swamp creature mentioned in the compendium. I thought the miniature fit well and decided troll was the best race (since there’s really no other race he’d fit into)

EDIT: I guess you could make an argument for Ogre
Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm not certain I'm a fan of Valhallan trolls regenerating when that's the key hook of D&D trolls and we know Feylundian trolls don't. I'd personally suggest going in a different direction here and really doubling down on the lurking monster angle you find in folklore (i.e. the sort you'd find under bridges), or making them more akin to trolls in
Norse mythology Norse mythology
(particularly since they would inhabit a place bloody well called Valhalla). Since trolls are already different from world to world in Heroscape lore, and there's quite a bit of variation in how creatures called trolls are portrayed anyway (mythological/folklore trolls, D&D trolls and Tolkien trolls (the ones that I personally think of when I think 'troll' - I pretty much grew up with the Lord of the Rings films...) are effectively three completely different things), I think keeping trolls from each world they inhabit distinct would be more interesting and feel less out of place than Valhallan trolls being 'D&D trolls, but not'. That way, you'd have a nice bit of distinction, variation, and allow the game to take from and expand different thematic areas - Valhallan trolls can have their own (possibly mythological/folkloresque) feel, D&D trolls can be what everyone expects from D&D trolls, and Feylundian ones like Krug can hold the mantle for the Tolkienesque 'Hulk Smash' brand of troll.


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  #5655  
Old March 29th, 2018, 04:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm not certain I'm a fan of Valhallan trolls regenerating when that's the key hook of D&D trolls and we know Feylundian trolls don't.
We do? You mean Krug?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I'd personally suggest going in a different direction here and really doubling down on the lurking monster angle you find in folklore (i.e. the sort you'd find under bridges), or making them more akin to trolls in Norse mythology (particularly since they would inhabit a place bloody well called Valhalla). Since trolls are already different from world to world in Heroscape lore, and there's quite a bit of variation in how creatures called trolls are portrayed anyway (mythological/folklore trolls, D&D trolls and Tolkien trolls (the ones that I personally think of when I think 'troll' - I pretty much grew up with the Lord of the Rings films...) are effectively three completely different things), I think keeping trolls from each world they inhabit distinct would be more interesting and feel less out of place than Valhallan trolls being 'D&D trolls, but not'. That way, you'd have a nice bit of distinction, variation, and allow the game to take from and expand different thematic areas - Valhallan trolls can have their own (possibly mythological/folkloresque) feel, D&D trolls can be what everyone expects from D&D trolls, and Feylundian ones like Krug can hold the mantle for the Tolkienesque 'Hulk Smash' brand of troll.
Thanks for your input Lazy Orang, I think you have a good point here. If this troll is really supposed to be from Valhalla, I would like to see it have some more distinct characteristics in some way.

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  #5656  
Old March 29th, 2018, 04:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm not certain I'm a fan of Valhallan trolls regenerating when that's the key hook of D&D trolls and we know Feylundian trolls don't.
We do? You mean Krug?
Yes, I'm referring to Krug. He's listed as a troll, comes from Feylund, and has no regeneration based power. Not sure why you're being quizzical here (unless we're to assume Krug has some sort of rare blood condition which makes him unlike all other trolls everywhere in being unable to regenerate, which certainly wasn't mentioned in his bio and would be a weird thing to assume).


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  #5657  
Old March 30th, 2018, 07:41 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Been mulling this one over. I'm in the camp of thinking Rujin looks strong. I've play tested him a couple times and while he's fallen short I've also seen him put the smack down on figures. Maybe ironically, I think he'll probably work better without Durgeth Ravagers in favor of constant regeneration. Even if it means giving up height I'll take a 2 wound regeneration all day in most circumstances. But opinions on his power level seem to be all over and I’m willing to test for that.

I do think the point of making a Valhalla Troll more unique is a good one, but also feel like the design of a regenerating swamp monster fits the bill nicely for what Sir H is going for. It’s definitely scary to fight.

to review.
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  #5658  
Old March 31st, 2018, 02:21 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The idea that the swamp monster mentioned in the lore is just a troll, and the idea that we are going to adopt D&D trolls as Valhalla trolls rather than make them their own thing just seems too off to me.

to review Rujin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Yeah, I'll be honest, I'm not certain I'm a fan of Valhallan trolls regenerating when that's the key hook of D&D trolls and we know Feylundian trolls don't.
We do? You mean Krug?
Yes, I'm referring to Krug. He's listed as a troll, comes from Feylund, and has no regeneration based power. Not sure why you're being quizzical here (unless we're do assume Krug has some sort of rare blood condition which makes him unlike all other trolls everywhere in being unable to regenerate, which certainly wasn't mentioned in his bio and would be a weird thing to assume).
Sorry, my train of thought caught up with you before I finished posting, but I neglected to edit out my skepticism.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #5659  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 08:51 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I'm fine to test the design. I haven't played around with the Durgeths yet but I have my doubts about how a regenerating hero will work with them (since you want consistent triggereing to keep up their health).

However, I really don't like this as being a troll from Valhalla. There are a variety of trolls from D&D worlds, including swamp trolls, so it strikes me as a wasted opportunity to define Valhallan trolls just to link this hero with the Ravagers a little bit more. You can just have cross-world synergy with a D&D troll.

For that narrow reason, I vote NAY to review.
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  #5660  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 11:06 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

from me for the swamp troll. Not keen on wasting design space by having Valhalla trolls being the same as DnD trolls.


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  #5661  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 11:10 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Am I missing something here? I mean I appreciate all the judges voting...but Rujin did already receive a majority vote to be reviewed.
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  #5662  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 11:20 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The criticism that's emerged about Valhalla trolls is an interesting one. I'd rather this not get foisted off on the C3V until the SoV judges have completed their process, Sir H. I would not be surprised if one of the early voters is reconsidering, based on an (easily addressed) inconsistency with the canon. I know my own thought, which is that this is an excellent troll - as I posted before - but the "Valhalla" piece is troubling me as well.

edit: Did you explain somewhere why Valhalla? I apologize if I missed it. Even if this does get through the SoV, I am sure others will want to know.

edit 2: Nevermind, I found it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Rujin hails directly from Heroscape Lore. His home is in the Durgeth Swamps; a native to the area, and we read from the compendium regarding the Duregeth Swamps that "a powerful divining rod was thrown into the waters of the swamp to keep it from falling into the wrong hands and is guarded by a large swamp monster." (emphasis added)

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  #5663  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 11:28 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I mean, I’m a little confused by all the push back. If it’s only canon inconsistency that is the issue here then I’ll just not give him a BIO and instead of claiming him as a figure from Heroscape canon from the Durgeth Swamps, I’ll claim him as a good ‘ol DnD troll who just happens to bond with Ravagers. Problem solved. Because other than that, there has been no other reason to not review him.
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  #5664  
Old April 2nd, 2018, 11:50 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Yeah, I'd have less of a reservation about this unit if it was a D&D Troll. Not enough to vote against it at this point, but it would start my review with a strike against it.

If you're not opposed to changing it, I think he'd have an easier time making it through.

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