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  #73  
Old October 6th, 2021, 07:15 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

TAF is probably right about the wider aura being too much and good point about the defaulting. Not sure why I messed around with it being any further than 2 spaces. Will definitely have to make sure just how much enabling your shadow abilities would make a difference. Consider Mika Connour somewhat in all of this

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  #74  
Old October 6th, 2021, 11:36 PM
Blue Trails Blue Trails is offline
 
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

The current iteration looks good. I noticed, though, that the newest version of Shadow Aura lets Ilvara create a "bridge" of shadow tiles to bypass water's movement-halting ability. I don't think this breaks anything, but it would be worth testing the unit on water-heavy maps to gauge the effect's impact.
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  #75  
Old October 7th, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

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Originally Posted by SchismaticSounds View Post
TAF is probably right about the wider aura being too much and good point about the defaulting. Not sure why I messed around with it being any further than 2 spaces. Will definitely have to make sure just how much enabling your shadow abilities would make a difference. Consider Mika Connour somewhat in all of this
Ilvara would open a lot of doors for Mika (literally and figuratively). Yet another indirect synergy that Ilvara introduces!

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Originally Posted by Blue Trails View Post
The current iteration looks good. I noticed, though, that the newest version of Shadow Aura lets Ilvara create a "bridge" of shadow tiles to bypass water's movement-halting ability. I don't think this breaks anything, but it would be worth testing the unit on water-heavy maps to gauge the effect's impact.
We had a discussion about this in the Discord server. This creates weird mechanic interactions between Greater Ice Elemental, Re-Tak-Shi, and Ilvara. If there was all 3 characters on a map, how would one determine which ability overrides the others? We know that GIE overrides RTS, and That's where the reasoning came from of making the shadow supersede all. I don't foresee a shadow bridge being game-breaking, if anything it creates a more logical method of making it happen. GIE as he stands doesn't really fit into a build other than with Talingul, and even then he doesn't do much. Boreos can fly Talingul over any water, followed by the 2-spaced constructs lunging over the water. I'm referring to 1-space puddles when I say that, but we don't see many maps with ponds anyway.
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  #76  
Old October 8th, 2021, 08:08 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I kind of like the idea of creating a shadow space to be a shadow space...allowing her to move over water and giving her enemies the benefits of shadow as well.
Once a character changes a hex it should be a changed hex not a sometimes I change it hex. I know there's other customs (even fan accepted ones) that do this but IMHO that's just flat out a mistake. And that's why it should affect her as well.

Just my two cents.

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  #77  
Old October 20th, 2021, 11:43 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

@Captain Stupendous brought up a really good point regarding the shadow aura, which inclined me to make a change. If a person wants to utilize Ilvara's shadow aura for units that are not drow, it's a 140 point investment. It's unfair to give Ilvara the shadow aura, considering her other 2 abilities are strictly drow-based. Take Re-Tak-Shi for example. If someone wanted to run microcorp agents with RTS, they could do so without breaking the bank. It would make more sense to create a separate, cheaper hero that emulates RTS or GIE's role.

With that being said, if you're drafting Ilvara, you're already committed to heavy Drow team, so it makes more sense to me for her to have Drow Supremacy. I've been told that Supremacy powers are reserved for leaders, so it makes sense here. In the lore, Ilvara is very high in the chain of command, holding the title of "High Priestess."

This also makes the Drow 5% more competitive and 5% less map-dependent. A player shouldn't be deterred from playing the Drow just because a map doesn't have shadow (or dungeon) tiles.

Let me know your thoughts!

Last edited by AndreThaGiant; October 20th, 2021 at 12:21 PM.
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  #78  
Old October 20th, 2021, 12:25 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I forgot to mention- I gave her 5 range, but might drop that to 4 depending on playtesting.
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  #79  
Old October 20th, 2021, 11:11 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I like the new statline and Drow Supremacy, if only because I like using Estivara and dislike throwing frail bonding sources into engagements, but I would watch Ilvara's point value during playtesting to see if the added Range skews anything. However, I don't see why keeping Shadow Aura would mean that no other figure could ever have a similar shadow-generating ability; special powers were reused frequently in classic 'Scape, so the future creation of a cheaper, thematically appropriate unit with the same power wouldn't be unprecedented. Moreover, because shadow's effect can't stack, there shouldn't be any balance concerns.

Also, I will ask again whether you mean that Ilvara is supposed to merely imitate an actual, named character in D&D lore or that she is that character. I know that you have SoV-related aspirations for this design, but I can't imagine that a unit that is explicitly a (likely copyrighted) character from another fictional universe would be favored in the process.
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  #80  
Old October 21st, 2021, 10:27 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I can't argue with any of that, but I'm not sure the judges would see it that way. Either way, it would be nice to determine the likelihood of one or the other before playtesting, so it's not time wasted.

Originally the intent was that it is Ilvara from Forgotten Realms lore. I did not know that those characters are copyrighted. Time to consider a new name?
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  #81  
Old October 21st, 2021, 10:48 AM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

Copy rights matter why? What are you selling? Lol. Heroscape is essentially a fan game. D&D planets to include their characters are canon to heroscape in as much as their planets are, the same can be said for earth and their history. I'd just see if judges care/like/dislike anything about it. Imo theyll care more about design than if this is a character from dnd canon.

Customs are for home use and enjoyment first and foremost.
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  #82  
Old October 21st, 2021, 11:51 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I think your reasoning makes sense so this version with Drow supremacy feels cleaner and very Heroscape-y. But I also thought the shadow ability would have benefitted Pelloth a whole lot for lurk in shadows, and the supremacy doesn’t help as it does for Hide in Darkness. This is probably better to support the Drow on the whole, as I was probably just getting excited about setting up the perfect storm for Pelloth
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  #83  
Old October 22nd, 2021, 02:05 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

I agree it would have. But this opens up a niche for a cheerleader shadow unit, which I think will be more beneficial to the scape canon. And I'm totally with you, would love to see Pelloth really shine!
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  #84  
Old October 22nd, 2021, 11:54 PM
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Re: AndreThaGiant's Customs [ILVARA THE DROW OM HUB]

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Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant View Post
I can't argue with any of that, but I'm not sure the judges would see it that way. Either way, it would be nice to determine the likelihood of one or the other before playtesting, so it's not time wasted.

Originally the intent was that it is Ilvara from Forgotten Realms lore. I did not know that those characters are copyrighted. Time to consider a new name?
If you're talking about Drow Supremacy v. Shadow Aura: I'd like to think that playtesting either version would not be a waste of time. Drow Supremacy has legitimate merit on the unit you've made, and you could always roll playtesting experience with Shadow Aura into a later custom if you ever feel like making the cheaper shadow-cheerleader you've mentioned earlier.

I don't want to seem overly harsh in this whole matter, though; I do like the unit, and I have no problem with 'Scapeifying established characters for personal use, but I didn't want to see the name cause a problem for you down the line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Copy rights matter why? What are you selling? Lol. Heroscape is essentially a fan game. D&D planets to include their characters are canon to heroscape in as much as their planets are, the same can be said for earth and their history. I'd just see if judges care/like/dislike anything about it. Imo theyll care more about design than if this is a character from dnd canon.
I would think that the biggest copyright concern is due to the fact that this community sells and trades the "fan-official" C3V and SoV figures. Wizards could see this as profiting from an unlicensed use of company property and seek legal recourse. While I appreciate your other points, I am not really sure how they could prevent this outcome.

It is probably best to let the judges decide on their own, though, as you both mentioned.
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