Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #49  
Old November 18th, 2015, 01:28 PM
20BlackPearls 20BlackPearls is offline
 
Join Date: November 18, 2015
Location: USA-OR-Eugene
Posts: 2
20BlackPearls is surprisingly tart
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

So is this card saying you can choose a tree 4 spaces away from the Eilan and move anywhere adjacent to that tree. Or pick a tree and move 4 spaces from your current space adjacent to that tree?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old November 18th, 2015, 01:48 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 27,079
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Card
THROUGH THE GREEN
Before taking a turn with the Eilan Sidhe, all Eilan Sidhe you control adjacent to a tree or bush may use Through the Green. To use Through the Green, place the Eilan Sidhe on any unoccupied space adjacent to any tree or bush within 4 clear sight spaces of that Eilan Sidhe. If an Eilan Sidhe is engaged when it uses Through the Green, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
So is this card saying you can choose a tree 4 spaces away from the Eilan and move anywhere adjacent to that tree.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
Or pick a tree and move 4 spaces from your current space adjacent to that tree?
Yes.

Both conditions must apply. What's happening here is magical movement from one tree/bush to another, so there must be adjacency at both ends. It is, you might say, situationally useful.

The target tree or bush must be, as the card says, within 4 clear sight spaces of the moving figure, not the vegetation next to that figure.

Does that help?

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:31 PM
20BlackPearls 20BlackPearls is offline
 
Join Date: November 18, 2015
Location: USA-OR-Eugene
Posts: 2
20BlackPearls is surprisingly tart
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Card
THROUGH THE GREEN
Before taking a turn with the Eilan Sidhe, all Eilan Sidhe you control adjacent to a tree or bush may use Through the Green. To use Through the Green, place the Eilan Sidhe on any unoccupied space adjacent to any tree or bush within 4 clear sight spaces of that Eilan Sidhe. If an Eilan Sidhe is engaged when it uses Through the Green, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
So is this card saying you can choose a tree 4 spaces away from the Eilan and move anywhere adjacent to that tree.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
Or pick a tree and move 4 spaces from your current space adjacent to that tree?
Yes.

Both conditions must apply. What's happening here is magical movement from one tree/bush to another, so there must be adjacency at both ends. It is, you might say, situationally useful.

The target tree or bush must be, as the card says, within 4 clear sight spaces of the moving figure, not the vegetation next to that figure.

Does that help?
Yes! That helps. So I may move very far depending how big the tree is, because I can move to the other side of tree as long as the tree itself is with in 4 spaces?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old November 18th, 2015, 10:32 PM
Dad_Scaper's Avatar
Dad_Scaper Dad_Scaper is offline. Isn't that smurfy?
Counting gray cells and coming up short... Also, I confess to being a fanboy.
 
Join Date: January 3, 2007
Location: MD - Baltimore
Posts: 27,079
Images: 4
Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth Dad_Scaper is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Not only that, but it's *before* taking a turn, and it's *all* of them. So it's very powerful, on the right map. On the wrong map, of course, they'll be sad.

C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
Designing Customs? Help With Wurdz
= =
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old April 20th, 2021, 06:42 PM
Muskie's Avatar
Muskie Muskie is offline
 
Join Date: September 19, 2018
Location: Dexter, MI
Posts: 504
Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Looks like these are no longer available out there. Is there a proxy?

What GenCon taught me was to assume only one skull on three dice!
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old April 21st, 2021, 01:16 AM
AndreThaGiant's Avatar
AndreThaGiant AndreThaGiant is offline
 
Join Date: July 16, 2018
Location: USA - ND - Fargo
Posts: 222
AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness AndreThaGiant wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmuskie View Post
Looks like these are no longer available out there. Is there a proxy?
I reached out to @Sgt.Erock regarding this, so stay tuned to his Thingiverse!
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 12:32 AM
SharkRider1 SharkRider1 is offline
 
Join Date: September 25, 2019
Location: USA - Colorado - Denver
Posts: 38
SharkRider1 knows what's in an order marker SharkRider1 knows what's in an order marker SharkRider1 knows what's in an order marker
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

@coachmuskie Reaper Bones also has a sculpt called Drys, Dryad that is a solid proxy for these - pretty much the same size and posed very similarly, although it is unpainted. There should be a direct link to it in the Alternate Sculpts thread Dad_Scaper put together, I believe, but if not I can find one for you.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old April 22nd, 2021, 08:03 AM
Muskie's Avatar
Muskie Muskie is offline
 
Join Date: September 19, 2018
Location: Dexter, MI
Posts: 504
Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness Muskie wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharkRider1 View Post
@coachmuskie Reaper Bones also has a sculpt called Drys, Dryad that is a solid proxy for these - pretty much the same size and posed very similarly, although it is unpainted. There should be a direct link to it in the Alternate Sculpts thread Dad_Scaper put together, I believe, but if not I can find one for you.
I'll check that out!! I have no problem painting!

What GenCon taught me was to assume only one skull on three dice!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old August 12th, 2021, 04:19 AM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: USA - OR - Salem(ish)
Posts: 1,655
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
So is this card saying you can choose a tree 4 spaces away from the Eilan and move anywhere adjacent to that tree.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 20BlackPearls View Post
Or pick a tree and move 4 spaces from your current space adjacent to that tree?
Yes.

Both conditions must apply.
FYI, I think that second "yes" and the "both" are agreeing to a limitation you didn't mean to state. Based on your later response, I'm understanding that the figure is not actually limited to 4 spaces from its current space, since it could actually move up to 7 spaces by going to the far end of a multi-space evergreen.



The question arises because the text is a bit ambiguous on whether the "within 4 clear sight spaces" constraint applies to the adjacent space or to the tree or bush. Anyway it seems an R&C would be helpful here, since one can read the limitation as applying to the space or to the tree/bush (and hence probably why 20BlackPearls asked the question in the first place).

Speaking of bushes:
Quote:
THROUGH THE GREEN
Before taking a turn with the Eilan Sidhe, all Eilan Sidhe you control adjacent to a tree or bush may use Through the Green. To use Through the Green, place the Eilan Sidhe on any unoccupied space adjacent to any tree or bush within 4 clear sight spaces of that Eilan Sidhe. If an Eilan Sidhe is engaged when it uses Through the Green, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

NATURE'S PROTECTION
When an Eilan Sidhe rolls defense dice while adjacent to a tree or bush, one shield will block all damage.
There actually is no such thing as a "bush" in Heroscape terminology. There are three official pieces that represent vegetation:
  1. Evergreen Tree
  2. Palm Tree
  3. Underbrush
If we write "tree" then we mean #1 and #2. If we write "Jungle Piece" then we mean #2 and #3. If we write "bush" then we mean none of those, because that term does not exist. In fact, if "bush" appeared by itself it would also be ambiguous since we wouldn't know whether it was intended to mean only Underbrush or any Jungle Piece.

With that in mind,
  • If these powers are intended to work with exactly the three canonical terrain pieces above, then they should probably say "Evergreen Tree or Jungle Piece" as does the Quasatch Hunters' JUNGLE TRACKING.

  • If they wanted to include other future trees (and apply to everyone's current custom trees), then they could probably drop the Evergreen reference and just say "tree or Jungle Piece" (noting the lowercase "t").

  • If they wanted to work with all possible future/custom vegetation (which would seem to be thematically appropriate), then I'd recommend adopting a new term that means just that. Perhaps "any vegetation piece" or something.
But in any case "bush" is undefined. I can guess it was supposed to mean (at least) an official Underbrush piece, but I don't know if it should apply to a future hedge, climbing vine, mossy outcrop, whatever. Seems like it should either be (a) clearly open-ended or (b) clearly limited to the three official pieces, and thus use official terminology.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old August 12th, 2021, 09:45 AM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,886
Images: 479
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Spaces cannot be in "clear sight" of any figure, because clear sight requires actually seeing something from the figure's sight point. A "space" is more of a concept and has nothing physical to be looked at. "Clear sight" must be to a physical object, in this case a tree. Yes, an Eilan Sidhe can potentially move 7 spaces with this movement.

I agree with your analysis on "bush," but if memory serves, the use of "tree" and "bush" was us defining new terms to cover any new terrain pieces we might create. "Tree" currently covers Evergreen Tree and Palm Tree, and "bush" covers Underbush, without any real confusion. Any terrain pieces we make in the future would need to be classified as "tree" or "bush" if they were to potentially fit in those categories.

There was some push to give Wildwoods the species "Tree" to give them additional Eilan Sidhe synergy. It was shot down, in part because I wasn't comfortable with "tree" covering both terrain and a species. A clever thought regardless.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old August 13th, 2021, 12:47 AM
Just_a_Bill's Avatar
Just_a_Bill Just_a_Bill is offline
 
Join Date: December 31, 2007
Location: USA - OR - Salem(ish)
Posts: 1,655
Images: 59
Blog Entries: 7
Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun Just_a_Bill is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Thanks for the quick reply. To keep things manageable, for now I'll just respond to the outside parts of your post and leave the more complex middle part for later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
There was some push to give Wildwoods the species "Tree" to give them additional Eilan Sidhe synergy. It was shot down, in part because I wasn't comfortable with "tree" covering both terrain and a species. A clever thought regardless.
I'd have to agree on both counts (clever, but structurally blurry), so thank you for your vigilance. My brain is kinda messed up by Shadow now being both a terrain type and a Species, and I hope the lines don't get blurred like that again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Spaces cannot be in "clear sight" of any figure ... A "space" is more of a concept and has nothing physical to be looked at.
It seems you're saying that it would be impossible to interpret THROUGH THE GREEN like this
  • place the Eilan Sidhe on any unoccupied space (that's also adjacent to a tree or bush) within 4 clear sight spaces of that Eilan Sidhe
because the concept of clear sight does not apply to unoccupied/empty spaces. That sounds reasonable on paper, but upon further scrutiny isn't that statement disproven by powers like Knockback, Summon Elemental, Summon the Rechets of Bogdan, and (Heracles' version of) Throw?
  • Knockback the figure by placing it on any empty space within 3 clear sight spaces
  • place one of your ... Elementals on an empty space within 3 clear sight spaces
  • place all 3 Rechets of Bogdan on empty spaces within 6 clear sight spaces
  • place the figure on any empty space within 4 clear sight spaces
These seem to make it pretty clear that an empty/unoccupied space which is about to receive a figure clearly must be able to support a clear-sight check against that figure. Otherwise the powers cited above would never work.

Thus, unless I'm missing something, I'm still forced to conclude that it was reasonable for 20BlackPearls to wonder which interpretation was intended, and that an R&C would be a reasonable thing to consider. (Or alternatively, perhaps a recast of the power text that does not allow the sentence to be parsed two different ways, but I'll wager that's less appealing to the Rules Team.)


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list

Last edited by Just_a_Bill; August 13th, 2021 at 12:51 AM. Reason: clarification: Heracles, not Jotun
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old August 13th, 2021, 09:28 AM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,886
Images: 479
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of Eilan Sidhe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill View Post
These seem to make it pretty clear that an empty/unoccupied space which is about to receive a figure clearly must be able to support a clear-sight check against that figure. Otherwise the powers cited above would never work.
There is a key difference between those powers and Through the Green. In all of those cases, clear sight is drawn from a different figure. That is, you can make a clear sight check from the original figure and the newly-placed one. This is, of course, impossible with Through the Green because a figure cannot be in clear sight of itself.

Even still, it's easily confused and could use an R&C. I'd normally run this by the rest of the Rules Team, but this won't be controversial.
Quote:
Q: When using Through the Green, does the Eilan Sidhe need to be placed within 4 spaces of its original location?
A: No. The tree or bush must be within 4 clear sight spaces of the Eilan Sidhe. The new placement could be 5 spaces away (or even more, with the large Evergreen Tree).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards > C3V and SoV Customs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Book: Inheritance Trilogy by Christopher Paolini - Book 3 tmacdagreat Books 132 May 15th, 2012 06:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.