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  #49  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 08:46 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Based on our mission statement, our primary goals are three-fold:

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1. To be compatible with Classic/Official Heroscape, and completely VC-compliant: that is, designing with C3V and SoV figures in mind, and focusing on the AOTP figures that would be acceptable to SoV (figures that are pre-painted or usable without paint).


2. To provide an affordable and user-friendly entry point to both new and returning players, that captures the feel of a true Master Set.


3. To create balanced units that are relatively simple, easy to understand, and feel at home in a self-contained set together. Units will come from a wide range of themes, and capture the diversity of theme Heroscape is beloved for.
I echo other people's concerns about Nahiri placing terrain tiles. Personally, I would love to see this figure as an Icarian of some kind. Below is a draft I came up with for an Icarian warrior who is a faithful subject of Zelrig.

Quote:
Katryn Vade, Emperorís Chosen
Einar
Icarian / Unique Hero / Warrior / Devoted / Medium 5

5 Life / 5 Move / 1 Range / 6 Attack / 3 Defense

MAJESTIC INFERNO SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
All figures adjacent to Katryn are affected by Majestic Inferno Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Squad figures roll 1 less defence dice against Majestic Inferno Special Attack.

DRAGONHEART BLADE
Whenever Katryn would be affected by a special ability or special attack, you may choose to treat her size as Huge instead of Medium.
I've also drafted a short unpolished bio for her to further explain her theme. Note that this figure draws heavily upon the lore surrounding the classic Heroscape dragons, especially the bios for Nilfheim and Zelrig.

Quote:
For generations, the men of the eastern Icarian clans have paid yearly tribute to the great Dragon Emperor Zelrig, offering their most prized possessions as expressions of gratitude to their lord and protector. Yet, in over a thousand years, only one most unlikely person has ever been honored with a gift in return.

When the Nhah-Scirh attacked, Zelrigís life was saved by a young warrior, Katryn Vade. Her sacrificial choice that day inspired Zelrig to entrust her with the Dragonheart Blade, a sword forged from the blood of his own wounds. In battle, it is said that this weapon blazes with the flame of the Dragon Emperor himself, allowing Katryn to summon a column of fire which consumes her enemies.

When Katryn Vade chose to save her Emperor, she lost her family.
Now, with the Dragon Emperor's blessing, Katryn lives to avenge them.
Of course this is just one of many possible directions we could go with her. At this point I think just discussing a lot of potential ideas is good as we get a feel for where we want to take this figure.
This is very cool. Have the Icarians been used before?

The Dragonheart Blade is too cryptic for my liking however.
How about:
Nair Hiri is never affected by attacks that affect more than one figure.

I'd rather that defensive ability not be tied to the sword.
Blessing of the Emperor - or some such.

Majestic Sword Special Attack, etc

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  #50  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 08:49 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Owlman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I think the powerset could use tweaking, but Iím very excited by the Icarian angle for Nahiri. The majestic fires connection is tough, though, because itís going to be odd that it works against unique squads when Zelrigís doesnít. Still, I think itís on a very good track.
Same here, the Icarian angle is cool!

Still not sure why incorporating the natural hexes into her powerset is a bad idea, since lets be honest, the vast majority of people using these customs will more than likely have plenty of terrain to work with, IMO. The 2 single space beige hexes shouldn't be an issue.

Is everyone deadset against it tho? If so I won't bring it up again.


I'm all for using her flaming sword special tho! Makes sense

Like this:

Karina Vade, Emperorís Chosen
Einar
Icarian / Unique Hero / Warrior / Devoted /Medium 5

5 Life / 5 Move / 1 Range / 5 Attack / 3 Defense

MAJESTIC INFERNO SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
All figures adjacent to Katryn are affected by Majestic Inferno Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Squad figures roll 1 less defense dice against Majestic Inferno Special Attack.

Wielder of theDRAGONHEART BLADE
Whenever Karina Vade would be affected by a special ability or special attack, you may choose to treat her size as Huge instead of Medium.

Suggested changes in bold!
I like how you added Wielder here, because it shifts the focus of the power coming from a sword to being the wielder of the sword (and thus why it's not a combat power)

However, I disagree with lowering of the Attack.
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  #51  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 08:59 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Haven't had a chance to sit down and think this one through.


So far, I'm not a major fan of her getting a size change from her sword. But I am really digging the sword explosion idea.
Not being targettable by Huge figure's special attacks is kinda wonky in the MS terms, since Ozuul's SA doesn't target. It would make her immune to the pull because I believe that is a targetting power. I'm not going to it, but I think we could brainstorm a bit more.
What about the size change ability don't you like? If it helps any, I don't thematically see the ability as literally changing her size. It's more like by channeling the powers of a dragon she gains the same immunities that a dragon (or any other huge figure) would have. To me that's very thematic, but I can see how someone could be bothered by the way the power mechanically uses a literal change in size to represent something that's actually a little more symbolic.

One other nice thing about the ability is that it would actually give some more "texture" to the master set in terms of size variation. If future figures have abilities that specifically call out a figure's size, right now that's not very interesting since the only figure that's not medium is Ozuul. However, if Katryn was immune to these types of abilities, that would give players a little more room for counter-play within the context of the Master Set.

I also like how the ability is thematic without dramatically changing the figure's playstyle or point value. It gives the flavor of a second power without increasing the complexity much.

I suppose that's my case for the current version of Dragonheart Blade. All that being said, however, I don't see it as an essential part of the design and am totally open to brainstorming more. Another potential option could be a reverse-Thorian Speed ability, something like,

Quote:
DRAGONHEART BLADE
An opponent's figure must be adjacent to Katryn in order to choose her as the target of a special attack.
I still think the size-based immunity power is more thematic, but I also like how this ability is even more of a callback to Drake and his magical katana. This would be very similar to Necroblade's suggestion, just a little more widely useful and more intentionally a mirror of Thorian Speed. Ironically, while I think this ability would probably be more useful overall and contribute more to her point value than my original size-changing idea, at this point it would actually be much less useful in terms of the Master Set as I don't think we have any ranged special attackers other than Pyria (who wouldn't be affected by this anyway as her special doesn't target specific figures). Of course, there's still plenty of time to add new ranged specials, but I thought it was worth pointing out, especially as I think this version of the ability would give her more of a niche use and feel like more of a waste in games where it wasn't relevant.
The issue with size-based immunity as that it doesn't come off as expressing what you want it to.

HEART OF THE DRAGON
At the start of the game, choose a Dragon in your army to be Nair Hiri's champion. For as long as that champion is on the battlefield, Nair Hiri's Defense and Size are equal to that champion's Defense and Size.

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  #52  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 09:04 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Could a renamed Fanatical Advance be appropriate here?

Dragon Warrior
Nahiri never receives leaving engagement attacks from squad figures.

It gives her a little extra trick to pull off bigger explosive swords swings. We can always name the sword in the bio, and the special attack is very clearly a nod to the sword (unlike Thorian Speed).
The idea behind this is neat: Have her powers reference and with new nuance.
He hoses squads, she disregards them.

a Flavor win.

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  #53  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 09:06 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
I personally don't see the thematic justification for giving her Tough, but I could probably be persuaded.

Reusing a version of Steadfast seems even more niche outside the set than the size change, especially without a strong thematic connection.

Here's another option to consider that might better fit the theme of a dragon ally?

Quote:
LOYAL PROTECTOR
Add +1 to the Attack and Defense values of this card [or some other bonus?] if Katryn is adjacent to a friendly wounded unique hero.
This looks more like a power for the Rhox

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  #54  
Old May 23rd, 2020, 09:09 AM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

And we're caught up.
My brainstorm:

POWER 1
Before attacking with Nair Hiri, you may attack with any Huge figure you control. When choosing figures to attack, if it's for a special attack, that figure may choose figures adjacent to Nair Hiri.

Power 2
Nair Hiri is never attacked by common figures for leaving an engagement.

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  #55  
Old June 9th, 2020, 08:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Bumping this. How we feeling?
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  #56  
Old June 11th, 2020, 09:03 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
Bumping this. How we feeling?
I feel we're all over the place, but have explored interesting ideas.



Sidenote, her color scheme looks good as Utgar.

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  #57  
Old June 11th, 2020, 10:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.
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  #58  
Old June 13th, 2020, 01:51 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.
Elf didn't feel right. I like Icarian if that's a thing (Sorin has the same complexion, so maybe him too)

Dragon worshiper doesn't sit right, especially since as you said there isn't a Dragon in the set.

I do like the idea of her flaming sword having some identity.

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  #59  
Old June 13th, 2020, 03:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Confred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.
Elf didn't feel right. I like Icarian if that's a thing (Sorin has the same complexion, so maybe him too)

Dragon worshiper doesn't sit right, especially since as you said there isn't a Dragon in the set.

I do like the idea of her flaming sword having some identity.
The Icarians are referenced in several official bios (off the top of my head, Nilfheim and Zelrig stand out, along with C3V's Quahon). They're the humanoid residents of Icaria, the planet where pretty much all of the non-D&D dragons came from. The only Icarian unit so far is the Nhah Scirh Cultists, which are a dragon-slaying cult referenced in Nilfheim and Quahon's bios.

It's worth noting that Zelrig's bio, which Captain Stupdendous' draft was inspired by, is written from the perspective of the non-evil Icarians that he protects. The dragons are pretty much gods or rulers on Icaria, protecting separate tribes of Icarians from other threats. It's perfectly fine to say that this design is a hero from one of those tribes, even if the dragon itself isn't present (probably not the Nhah Scirh, though, since they're dedicated to dragon-slaying and she looks very different).

Personally, I don't mind if a unit is thematically tied to units outside of the set so long as it is satisfying to play without those units. Dragon Bonding, for example, would really stand out when we can't release any dragons for it, while a medium-sized hero that is themed like a dragon is more acceptable.
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Old June 14th, 2020, 11:45 PM
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Re: [Pod 2] Nahiri, Fury in Stone

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Confred View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Can't say that I love the idea of dragon bonding when there's no dragons in the set. I also find the Icarian angle much more compelling than an elf. I really do think we have something with the flaming sword Icarian dragon worshiper idea.
Elf didn't feel right. I like Icarian if that's a thing (Sorin has the same complexion, so maybe him too)

Dragon worshiper doesn't sit right, especially since as you said there isn't a Dragon in the set.

I do like the idea of her flaming sword having some identity.
The Icarians are referenced in several official bios (off the top of my head, Nilfheim and Zelrig stand out, along with C3V's Quahon). They're the humanoid residents of Icaria, the planet where pretty much all of the non-D&D dragons came from. The only Icarian unit so far is the Nhah Scirh Cultists, which are a dragon-slaying cult referenced in Nilfheim and Quahon's bios.

It's worth noting that Zelrig's bio, which Captain Stupdendous' draft was inspired by, is written from the perspective of the non-evil Icarians that he protects. The dragons are pretty much gods or rulers on Icaria, protecting separate tribes of Icarians from other threats. It's perfectly fine to say that this design is a hero from one of those tribes, even if the dragon itself isn't present (probably not the Nhah Scirh, though, since they're dedicated to dragon-slaying and she looks very different).

Personally, I don't mind if a unit is thematically tied to units outside of the set so long as it is satisfying to play without those units. Dragon Bonding, for example, would really stand out when we can't release any dragons for it, while a medium-sized hero that is themed like a dragon is more acceptable.
I dig all of this. When finalized, a shopped version of this information should be in her bio.

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