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  #253  
Old May 2nd, 2020, 11:27 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Vote for

OK then
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  #254  
Old May 4th, 2020, 10:14 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Vote for

Alrighty, and we're officially in playtesting here!

Badru are obviously his main synergistic point. Some standalone tests in more Master-Set style armies would be helpful as well, so see if he's fun to play in that setting. And of course, anyone with sanctum access can run some games with the relevant demon synergy, which I'll try to do a few of myself.
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  #255  
Old May 5th, 2020, 07:50 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Team 1: Velkhor, Arktos, Wolves of Badru x2, Krav Maga Agents (me)
Team 2: Kaemon Awa, Raelin (RotV), Marro Stingers x4

Units Survived: Kaemon Awa with 1 life remaining.

Map: Stygian Rift https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1...Xm3ozlJe0/edit

Wounds Dealt by Velkhor: 3 wounds on Raelin.
0 Wounds dealt as a result of Frailty Aura
Received 5 wounds from Marro Stingers

This was a very fun game with a very tight opening, sloggy middle, and epic finish. I opened by moving Velkhor and some wolves into the middle of the map while avoiding potential stinger range. Order marker two for me was on Arktos, positioning him on the elevation in the middle of the map, while my opponent moved his stingers up and along with Raelin. As I was revealing my 3rd order marker on the wolves, I noticed that Raelin was positioned next to a level 4 elevation within range of Velkhor, so I took the chance to strike, charged in with Velkhor, took the height next to Raelin, and swung big for 3 unblocked wounds! I then used the wolves to pounce Raelin and the stingers around her. Pounce 1 failed with 0 skulls for one dead wolfy boi. Pounce 2 failed with 1 skull for another dead wolfy boi. My last pounce did kill a stinger though. Stingers made short work of the other wolf, so after one more order marker to bring more wolves into position, I transitioned to Arktos in an attempt to finish off Raelin. For a couple rounds neither me or my opponent could make any good attack rolls, but eventually Arktos killed Raelin and a couple more stingers before he and Velkhor were finished off by the endless stinger waves. Velkhor went on to haunt Kaemon Awa, while Arktos boosted the Kravís range.

The middle of the game was a long dance as my Krav slowly killed advancing waves of stingers who killed the rest of my wolves before focusing fire on the Krav. One Krav died from a stinger attack, but the other two were able to stay out of engagement and eventually killed the rest of the stingers with solid attack rolls.

With my 3rd order marker, I advanced my last two Krav to height to make two attacks from height to deal 2 wounds on Kaemon Awa who was still sitting in his start zone. This proved to be my undoing, as my opponent had his 3rd order marker on Kaemon, and won initiative to engage both of my Krav. If I had simply played more conservatively with the Krav on this turn, I think I could have stayed out of engagement with my 9 range and easily killed Kaemon who only had 2 defense thanks to Velkhor. As it was, Kaemon engaged me and killed one Krav. My last Krav was able to deal 1 more wound to Kaemon before succumbing to the Quick Draw special attack.

Thoughts
Overall I really like Velkhor. Interestingly, this is now my second playtest with him where his Frailty Aura has had no effect on the outcome of any attack, despite having many opportunities for it. This game that was mainly because of poor attack rolls more than anything else though. It also made me think about how often other auras may actually have less of an effect than it feels like psychologically. For example, SotM Raelinís aura gives +1 defense all the time, but how often does that extra die roll actually make a difference? Itís hard to say since the bonus dice from Raelin are rolled along with the normal defense, whereas with Velkhor you will always know when his aura was responsible for getting that extra wound. All that to say, I donít think that makes Velkhorís aura any weaker, its effect is just more transparent than other buffs, and that's not a bad thing.

Hereís a link to the game log: https://www.heroscapers.com/ohs/inde...Wlm-e73OXKsa3o

Last edited by Captain Stupendous; May 5th, 2020 at 09:09 PM.
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  #256  
Old May 5th, 2020, 08:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Desecrated Mine (ARV)
Glyphs: Dagmar, Ulvania

Army 1: Warforged Soldiers x4, Zetacron, B-11 Resistance Corps
Army 2: (C3V unreleased unit), Morgoloth, Velkhor.


Which units survived? 5 Warforged, 2 B-11, Zetacron.

Morgoloth took the field first, but didn't accomplish much before going down. Velkhor's dice made him almost as effective, and he stuck around to affect a fair few rolls, but with only depleted B-11 and Zetacron as spirit options there wasn't much reason for the Warforged to avoid targeting him.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Shields Removed with Frailty Aura: 6
Wounds caused by shields removed: 1 Warforged
Curse Spirit unit affected: B-11
Defense rolls affected by Curse Spirit: 0
Damage dealt with attacks: 2 Warforged

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
The Warforged side led with the B-11, which made it very tricky for the demons to set up without getting picked off. Raelin would help, but Demons tend to be a little pricey to make running her viable.
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  #257  
Old May 5th, 2020, 08:52 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Desecrated Mine
Glyphs: Dagmar and Ulvania

Army 1: Warforged Soldiers x4, Sgt. Drake V2
Army 2: (C3V unreleased), Morgoloth, Velkhor


Which units survived? 7 (unreleased).

The presence of Velkhor inclined Army 2 to lead with Drake instead of Warforged, which in turn made the Demons lead with Velkhor instead of Morgoloth. Velkhor flew in early for a big 3 wounds on Drake helped by his aura, and Drake's attack back did nothing, letting Morgoloth charge in and land another 2 wounds against a Frailer Drake, who fell shortly after. Velkhor and Morgoloth both died in the ensuing skrirmish against the Warforged, but not without doing significant damage.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Shields Removed with Frailty Aura: 10
Wounds caused by shields removed: 4 wounds Drake, 3 Warforged
Curse Spirit unit affected: No uniques available when Velkhor died.
Defense rolls affected by Curse Spirit: N/A
Damage dealt with attacks: 3 wounds Drake, 2 Warforged

The presence of Vulnerability Spirit caused Army 1 to lead with their hero, which proved ineffective.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Very dominating game from Velkhor. I don't think that's due to the unreleased unit, though. This was a very good matchup for him against a mediocre army, and the dice felt very much in his favor. Regarding the unreleased unit, it's not ideal to have to move Velkhor after them, so you're always taking a gamble getting into position. His mobility means you'll usually get to attack, though, which is nice. I think he'll be decent at best with them as long as his price stays somewhat high, so we'll have to see what his performance looks like in games closer to the style of a master set.
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  #258  
Old May 8th, 2020, 06:29 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Uncharted Jungle (ARV) https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1...Wng9bnYqs/edit

Army 1: Velkhor, Badru Wolves x2, Arktos, Varkaanan Quickblades (500)
Army 2: Krug, Grimnak, Arrow Gruts x3, Heavy Gruts x2 (500)

Which units survived? Army 2 with Krug (2 wounds), Five Arrow Gruts, Two Heavy Gruts

This game was a rough one for the united wolf alliance. Arktos and the Quickblades advanced first, hoping to assassinate Grimnak early on, whereas the orcs developed Krug and the archers. Arktos was able to secure height on one of the elevated turrets on the center of the map and deal 3 wounds to Grimnak before being engaged by Krug. Meanwhile, the Quicklades were also able to land a wound on Grimnak and kill a handful of orc squaddies before dying. When Velkhor was developed with the Badru, he was used effectively to kill several archers and a Heavy, but unfortunately I lost two Badru to Grimnakís chomp, and then once Krug was able to engage my wolves he made short work of them. My opponent largely ignored Velkhor until the end of the game, saving him to be the last unit to kill. Ultimately I had no way to deal with Krug, and he finished off Arktos and Velkhor with ease.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?
Frailty Aura was used to kill one Heavy Grut who would have otherwise survived the attack. The Curse Spirit never came into play as Velkhor was the last to die.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
After this game, my opponent mentioned that he didnít think Velkhor is worth 145 points. While this might be true, I am also inclined to think that this army was simply a bad matchup against my opponent. Other than Arktos, I had no ranged units to safely deal with Krug, and the orcís disengagement abilities prevented me from using Velkhor to tie any of them down and they were free to focus on the higher priority targets of Arktos and the Badru. One interesting thing to note is that my 500-point army building options with the Badru would be expanded greatly if Velkhor cost just 10 points less. At 145 points, a core of Velkhor and x2 Badru costs 305, leaving 195 points for the rest of the army. In my opinion, thereís a pretty significant jump in quality between 90 point filler and 100 point filler, so having 205 free points to spend on two 100-point units would open up a lot more options than the 195 I had currently.

Game log: https://www.heroscapers.com/ohs/inde...v8UiYcgfeB2dbA
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  #259  
Old May 9th, 2020, 03:32 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Mole Hills (BOV) https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1...idmNc0zBM/edit

Army 1: Velkhor, Badru Wolves x2, Major Q10, Guilty McCreech (490) (Blue Start Zone)
Army 2: Shieldsmiths of Granite Keep x4, Grigor and Rogirg (490) (Red Start Zone)

Which units survived? Velkhor (3 wounds), 1 Badru Wolf, Guilty McCreech (full health), Major Q10 (full health)

I used my first OM to set up Velkhor on the 4 height elevation to the north of the lake. Q10 then followed, set up on the 3 height elevation next to Velkhor, then spent the next few turns sniping the advancing dwarves with his normal attack. During the third round, I placed two order markers on the wolves as by that time a handful of dwarves had engaged the Q10/Velkhor pod, and one attack of 4 from Velkhor + 3 attacks of 3 with wolves was better than I was going to get out of the wrist wrockets. This was fairly effective, as Velkhor killed two dwarves and I think the wolves killed a couple more. My opponent managed to get 3 wounds on Velkhor around this time, and used his dwarves mainly to kill off a bunch of wolves, but it wasn’t enough. After his first round of dwarves engaged me and died, I was able to kill them off pretty quickly with Q10. Once all his dwarves were killed, Q10 kited Grigor and killed him singlehandedly.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play? Velkhor killed two dwarves from height.
Frailty Aura was used to kill one Shieldsmith who would have otherwise survived a normal attack from a wolf, and allowed Q10 to deal one extra wound to Grigor. The Curse Spirit never came into play as Velkhor survived the game.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?
I think this army matchup was weighted in my favor. Without any range, I was able to position Velkhor and Q10 on height and force the dwarves to come to me. Once again, I was surpised by how little effect the Frailty Aura seemed to have, especially given the high defense of the dwarves. One thing that should be noted is that for a while there was a lone dwarf who Q10 spent several turns attacking, but because of elevation Velkhor didn't have LOS to him. If he had been within the aura, I'm pretty sure Q10 would have killed him 3 attacks sooner (I remember rolling 2 skulls vs 2 shields and wishing Velkhor's aura had applied). After the game, my opponent mentioned how scared he was of the -2 Defense from Velkhor’s spirit, and he thought that it could maybe be toned down to -1. I think I’d need to play more games with him to be sure, but right now I think I’d be okay with toning down the Curse from his spirit to -1 defense, and lowering his points accordingly.

Last edited by Captain Stupendous; May 9th, 2020 at 07:08 PM.
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  #260  
Old May 30th, 2020, 10:27 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Custom using AotP tiles and some elevation in the middle.

Army 1: Velkhor, Badru Wolves x2, Major J15 (400)
Army 2: Velnesh, Sentinels of Grix, Isamu, Ne-Gok-Sa, Krav Maga Agents (400)

Which units survived? Isamu, Negoksa (4 life remaining), 1 Velnesh Alpha

This game was kind of a rout as J’s Krav Maga decimated my Badru from the start and managed to stay out of engagement long enough to kill 4 Badru within the first two turns. Velkhor was actually useful at engaging the Krav and tying them down long enough for J15 to get into position, but it wasn’t enough. The game was closer than it should have been because J15 managed to get lucky, killing both Grix in back to back order markers. However, he was eventually killed by Isamu and the Velnesh polished off the last wolf for the win.

How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?


Velkhor: dealt 2 wounds to Krav Maga, 1 wound to Velnesh. Haunted Negoksa which probably allowed J15 to deal a wound to him.
Received 5 wounds from Velnesh.

Velnesh: Dealt 5 wounds to Velkhor, and 1 wound to Badru wolves.
Received 1 wound from Velkhor and 1 wound from J15.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

Velkhor’s aura continues to only be used very situationally. Also, the more I play with the wolves of Badru the more I realize how, despite my love for them, they just aren’t worth 80 points per squad. I think I need to play some games with Velkhor where I don’t also bring Badru to solidify my feelings about him, but right now I don’t quite think he’s punching worth 145. I think I’d be in favor of reducing his point range by 10-30 points, and also potentially making his spirit only reduce defense by -1 instead of -2. Overall though, I still really enjoy the design. I like the aura and how it really makes you be intentional about positioning and matchups to get the most use out of it.

Turn-by-turn summary:
Spoiler Alert!
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  #261  
Old May 30th, 2020, 10:32 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Map: Flash fire
Points: 480
Glyphs: Wannok, Defense +1

Team 1: Dienekes, Marcus, 2x Romans, Airborne Elite, Capt. John Varan
Team 2: Velkhor, 3x Cutters, Guilty, Horned Skull Brutes

Game report: Goblins moved up with Velkhor to meet Romans + Marcus. Romans were forced to split up to keep up with Team 2's kill rate. Romans defended well and goblins were falling quickly (mostly cutters). Once the Brutes started hitting back Romans began to fall. Velkhor was only useful in helping goblins to put 2 wounds on Marcus who survived for a long time. Airborne dropped in round 4 did some important but 2 members died quickly due to speed of cutters. Velkhor's spirit went on Capt. John. Capt. John did a lot of damage with Battle Valor Special Attack which was aided by Dienekes' Tether of Logos. Guilty finished of Capt. John and got Dienekes down to 1 life. Dienekes couldn't reach the cutter on Wannock so Team 2 won.

Units that survived: 1 Goblin Cutter

How did tested unit do?:
Shields Removed with Frailty Aura: 2
Wounds caused by shields removed: 2
Curse Spirit unit affected: Capt. John Varan which helped him with is special attack but also meant he wasn't alive for long.

Frailty Aura didn't feel like an hugely imposing aura for a darklord, but because it isn't such a powerful aura makes the opponent take less notice so the aura has more time to take affect. Also the fact Velkhor has the spirit makes an opponent wary of killing him. The powers work well together but it lacks something and for 145 points I am not sure. Velkhor had little effect on the game overall.

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  #262  
Old May 30th, 2020, 10:37 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

I have a suggestion that changes the aura to make it feel a bit more menacing.

FRAILTY AURA
When an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Velkhor rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, subtract 2 from the number of shields rolled.

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  #263  
Old May 30th, 2020, 10:53 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I have a suggestion that changes the aura to make it feel a bit more menacing.

FRAILTY AURA
When an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Velkhor rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, subtract 2 from the number of shields rolled.
Personally I don't think any changes are needed to the aura itself. Yes, its very situational, but I like how it forces you to play him tactically and match him up against the enemy figures with the highest defense in order to really use it to its full potential. Besides that, I'm not sure how the rules team would feel about any power specifically mentioning "blanks", since it probably wouldn't work against anyone rolling Valkyrie battle dice. All that being said, I think I agree that overall he's a bit underwhelming for the 145 price tag. He's somewhat comparable to Emperor Andask, who only costs 130 points and also has range and a Kyrie leadership buff. The big difference between the two is Velkhor's spirit, which I do think gives him the potential to earn back his points after death. However, since this can be played around, games with him often involved my opponent just trying to avoid him as much as possible without killing him until they need to. While that isn't necessarily a bad design, I think a cheaper version with less of a penalty for killing him might be more fun to play.
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  #264  
Old May 30th, 2020, 11:41 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] Velkhor (Ob Nixilis, Demon of Spite) - Playtesti

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I have a suggestion that changes the aura to make it feel a bit more menacing.

FRAILTY AURA
When an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Velkhor rolls defense dice against a normal or special attack, if at least one blank is rolled, subtract 2 from the number of shields rolled.
Oh shoot that wouldn't work with the blue and red dice either. Ignore that. I think 130 points is a good value, but not with a reduced value on the spirit.

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