What is your religion?

[Chimpy]

Originally Posted by Bannister

Why would an all powerful creator being need / want / request this show of devotion?

Bannister

That is a good question. After all, the Lord really does not need any such gestures.

Think of it as a trial of faith. Remember the story of Issac and Abraham? Where Abraham was required to sacrifice his son? The sacrifice of the fatted calf or lamb represents the sacrfice that we make by putting the Lord before the possesions of the Earth. (In addition, it represents the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for the world- seeing as the event had not happened yet, the follower's of God needed to be reminded of what was to come.) As a Latter Day Saint, I make a similar sacrifice. I pay a tithing of 10% of all I make to the Lord. If you want to learn more about that, you can go here.

[ej]

Faith is a powerful thing. The definition of Faith is a belief in something without proof. However, for those who have strong Faith, that proof is not necessary... God is self-evident. There is a God because the Faithful KNOW that there is a God. To argue or debate against a person of Faith will almost always end with the simple proclamation that Faith is everything, and for that person that is all that needs to be said and no further proof is required.

To debate religion with some Chrisitans or other sects is more than just an intellectual exercise... it's perceived as an attack on the foundation of their life. It's rare to have a religious debate where people are not offended because you're, in essence, telling them that what they see as Truth is a Big Lie.

Like Politics for some. I hold strong political beliefs but I don't espouse them here. I don't because I'm confident that my views are not shared by the majority and also because I want to count as many of you as I can as my friends, and a political debate does NOT foster strong friendships.

Faith can do wonders. I've seen Faith give great strength to those who I believe would be very weak without it. I would be very hesitant to try to turn someone away from religion, unless they were using it to hurt others (like the Phelps) or themselves. I would also hesitate to turn someone towards religion.

[Bannister]

Originally Posted by Chimpy

As a Latter Day Saint, I make a similar sacrifice. I pay a tithing of 10% of all I make to the Lord. If you want to learn more about that, you can go here.

No thanks, my brother is a Latter Day Saint Bishop, I have read the literature.

Bannister

PS My brother, his family, my family and I went to see the Mormon Tabernacle choir while they were in Memphis. They are worth seeing for anyone who gets a chance.

[Nwojedi]

Originally Posted by ej

Faith is a powerful thing. The definition of Faith is a belief in something without proof. However, for those who have strong Faith, that proof is not necessary... God is self-evident. There is a God because the Faithful KNOW that there is a God. To argue or debate against a person of Faith will almost always end with the simple proclamation that Faith is everything, and for that person that is all that needs to be said and no further proof is required.

To debate religion with some Chrisitans or other sects is more than just an intellectual exercise... it's perceived as an attack on the foundation of their life. It's rare to have a religious debate where people are not offended because you're, in essence, telling them that what they see as Truth is a Big Lie.

Like Politics for some. I hold strong political beliefs but I don't espouse them here. I don't because I'm confident that my views are not shared by the majority and also because I want to count as many of you as I can as my friends, and a political debate does NOT foster strong friendships.

Faith can do wonders. I've seen Faith give great strength to those who I believe would be very weak without it. I would be very hesitant to try to turn someone away from religion, unless they were using it to hurt others (like the Phelps) or themselves. I would also hesitate to turn someone towards religion.

Even those who could give two squirts for religion.. We get offended at People who preach or say things about thier religon in the direction of "saving" or helping the nonbeliever. As if someone would say, "i'll pray for you". To a non believer in a god, that is basically saying, "why the hell are you saying this outloud? You trying to convince me withy your propaganda, that I need or care for you to pray for me?".

In essence, both sides can be offended just as easy. And I personally hate when people use the Word Faith in place of religion as if it means to believe in god. Which Faith doesn't have any direct religous meaning. Just like sacred has nothing to do with religion, but people use it interchangably. :P

Uh, oh! EVERYONE!! Get in FORMATION!!!!!!!! I hear the marching beginning.

[kenjib]

I am atheist for a very simple reason: I don't take things on faith. I see absolutely no reason to believe anything without any proof. I do have a lot of respect for various religions from a historical, sociological, anthropological, and neurological perspective. We, as a species, have evolved to be hardwired toward religious belief, ritual, the irrational, and strong tribal identification with these beliefs for many reasons and I find studying that fascinating. The answers to why this trait has preserved so strongly in the species is an extremely cross-disciplinary thing too, as it has been a tool that is tied to many different aspects of our behavior and survival. Some of the religions I find most interesting personally at the moment are Taoism, Sufism, Shinto, Santería and local Native American religions. I also respect newer religions just as much as older ones and tend to think that the word "cult" is primarily nowadays used to make religions which are newer and/or have fewer followers seem somehow illegitimate even though to me they are just as valid and worthy of respect.

I think the Bible is interesting in that it is has become the greatest cipher in history. People can use it to justify all kinds of behavior through creative interpretation. It sometimes seems that nearly every passage has been interpretted with two opposite meanings at one point or another and it is very easy to decide what you want it to say before you read it, and make it conform to your beliefs as you read. Add to that the fact that none of it was written by Jesus himself, but rather by fallible and mortal men, that much of it was written hundreds of years after his death often by people with very specific agendas, that our English language versions for the most part have gone through multiple levels of translation and mistranslation from the original Hebrew, and that even attempting to translate from the original Hebrew presents problems with trying to figure out what words meant within the context of the writers thousands of years ago in spite of the huge changes in language evolution. It's truly a breathtaking and fascinating palimpsest of cultural overlay and intertwined cultural and political agendas obscuring spiritual revelation. Really it's a uniquely amazing work of collective human monument.

The Bible pretty much says just about everything at one point or another. It reminds me of a well-known passage from George Eliot's Middlemarch:

"Your pier-glass or extensive surface of polished steel . . . will be minutely and multitudinously scratched in all directions; but place now against it a lighted candle as a centre of illumination, and lo! the scratches will seem to arrange themselves in a fine series of concentric circles round that little sun. It is demonstrable that the scratches are going everywhere impartially, and it is only your candle which produces the flattering illusion of a concentric arrangement, its light falling with an exclusive optical selection."

[markwars]

I'm sorry I can't help myself....

[Nwojedi]

Originally Posted by kenjib

I am atheist for a very simple reason: I don't take things on faith. I see absolutely no reason to believe anything without any proof. I do have a lot of respect for various religions from a historical, sociological, anthropological, and neurological perspective. We, as a species, have evolved to be hardwired toward religious belief, ritual, the irrational, and strong tribal identification with these beliefs for many reasons and I find studying that fascinating. The answers to why this trait has preserved so strongly in the species is an extremely cross-disciplinary thing too, as it has been a tool that is tied to many different aspects of our behavior and survival. Some of the religions I find most interesting personally at the moment are Taoism, Sufism, Shinto, Santería and local Native American religions. I also respect newer religions just as much as older ones and tend to think that the word "cult" is primarily nowadays used to make religions which are newer and/or have fewer followers seem somehow illegitimate even though to me they are just as valid and worthy of respect.

I think the Bible is interesting in that it is has become the greatest cipher in history. People can use it to justify all kinds of behavior through creative interpretation. It sometimes seems that nearly every passage has been interpretted with two opposite meanings at one point or another and it is very easy to decide what you want it to say before you read it, and make it conform to your beliefs as you read. Add to that the fact that none of it was written by Jesus himself, but rather by fallible and mortal men, that much of it was written hundreds of years after his death often by people with very specific agendas, that our English language versions for the most part have gone through multiple levels of translation and mistranslation from the original Hebrew, and that even attempting to translate from the original Hebrew presents problems with trying to figure out what words meant within the context of the writers thousands of years ago in spite of the huge changes in language evolution. It's truly a breathtaking and fascinating palimpsest of cultural overlay and intertwined cultural and political agendas obscuring spiritual revelation. Really it's a uniquely amazing work of collective human monument.

The Bible pretty much says just about everything at one point or another. It reminds me of a well-known passage from George Eliot's Middlemarch:

"Your pier-glass or extensive surface of polished steel . . . will be minutely and multitudinously scratched in all directions; but place now against it a lighted candle as a centre of illumination, and lo! the scratches will seem to arrange themselves in a fine series of concentric circles round that little sun. It is demonstrable that the scratches are going everywhere impartially, and it is only your candle which produces the flattering illusion of a concentric arrangement, its light falling with an exclusive optical selection."

Well said. I agree 100%. Now get down and hold your shield up, before you get an arrow in the azz.

[ej]

Originally Posted by Nwojedi

Even those who could give two squirts for religion.. We get offended at People who preach or say things about thier religon in the direction of "saving" or helping the nonbeliever. As if someone would say, "i'll pray for you". To a non believer in a god, that is basically saying, "why the hell are you saying this outloud? You trying to convince me withy your propaganda, that I need or care for you to pray for me?".

In essence, both sides can be offended just as easy.

Too true. Aaaaand... I tend to get pretty offended with my coworker who wants to talk about the Bible constantly. I go to church, too, though not as often as I used to, but will you please stop turning everything into a religious discussion? It's. driving. me. insane!

[kenjib]

Originally Posted by Nwojedi

Well said. I agree 100%. Now get down and hold your shield up, before you get an arrow in the azz.

I've got underwear made of steel wool. It came from robot sheep.

[Bannister]

Originally Posted by kenjib

I've got underwear made of steel wool. It came from robot sheep.

That has got to chafe.

Here.

I swear by this stuff.



Bannister

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by bluekitsune13

So anyway, I don't mean for this to turn into a flame war, but I'm sure people will get offended. My wish it to bring religion out of the taboo, and to let people talk about it. By doing so I hope we can get rid of all the violence and hate religion causes.

If you're going to bring up religious disputes on an internet message board, please don't do it with the mistaken idea that anything good will come of it.

I'm a Christian. I've played Heroscape with two of the pastors at my church.

[The Super Atheist]

"Perhaps our role on this planet is not to worship God — but to create Him." - Sir Arthur Charles Clarke