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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#4045
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
How about a large boulder the size of a small boulder?
Also, I would 100% be OK with a power-less unit. It probably wouldn't be terribly interesting compared to pretty much anything else around it, but as long as the stats and points were right it could make just the filler your army needed. Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#4046
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Defence = ability to avoid significant harm (whether that's through skill, armour, evasion) Life = ability to keep fighting through significant harm ...and of course both can be represented through powers as well. So, from this model, Deathwalker, for example, has armour that's thick enough that it's nearly impossible to inflict significant harm on him (well, unless you've ever played Heroscape, anyway...), but internal systems so delicate that any significant harm will instantly shut him down. By contrast, Braxas isn't hard to hurt or draw blood from, but she'll fight through a lot more than most. Quote:
Does that ppw curve really matter in any case except acting as shields for Wannok, though? Main issue I see with a 5 point unit is making it interesting enough to be worth designing/existing, not anything about it being inherently broken or an auto-include. Either way, designing one with inherent downsides is probably the best design philosophy if you're going to do one. But then, I'm also intrigued by the possibility of negative cost units, so... |
#4047
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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"Oh no, how can I look at all that blank space where the text should be. The horror." |
#4048
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I’d be open to a design with nothing in the left box. Why not?
How about a blank power box and no hit zone? Would that be cheating the challenge? Because that could be cool. |
#4049
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Negative cost units (and zero cost units, for that matter) seem like a bad idea to me. It's just begging for some nasty minmaxing. |
#4050
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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I actually agree with Dok here. Any unit without a downside whose cost is the smallest increment of points is inherently too good. I don't think the comparison to when Swog/Dumutef became the cheapest unit is quite valid either, but not as much for the ppw curve reason. To elaborate on some stuff dok was saying above, the reason potato is too good, imo, isn't that it's an auto-include in certain armies, but that the set of armies where it's an auto-include is so large (plenty of armies have costs ending in 5). People don't particularly try to avoid falling 5 points short of the cap, because 5 points isn't a big deal. Back when there were no unit's for less than 40 points, any army with 35 points left over would just have to waste them. But 35 points is significant enough (particularly if you're playing with point limits around 400, which used to be the norm, I think), that if your army was short 35, you would probably think about a way to restructure your army to use more points. Therefore, even if Swog/Dumutef would be an auto-include in armies that were 25 points short, there weren't necessarily a lot of those armies showing up. Armies that are 5 point short are way more common (and we have a lot more figures available now, so arguably the fraction of armies it's acceptable for a new unit to be an automatic inclusion in should be smaller). I have kind of a unique perspective here, since I typically play Heroscape with self-adjusting point costs designed to ensure each army card is picked about equally often. As you might expect, this has an interesting impact on filler units. Isamu usually goes for around 40 points (since, as dok notes, he's the most undercosted unit, percentage-wise, by a landslide), but even Otonashi typically goes for at least 20 points, just because, even though she seldom does anything, she gets auto-included in armies that are a few points short just by virtue of being the cheapest unit. I don't really want to be facing a potato all the time. Quote:
I think that if you wanted to make a no-powers unit, you'd definitely want to make strategic use of the left box to give them interesting synergies. DS's idea of combining with no hit zone would be interesting. I've thought about using that on a custom in lieu of an "invisibility" power. ~KoS, who has designed and had fun with a negative point custom, but agrees that the concept has too much potential to be gamebreaking to make it official. Last edited by Knight of Scape; April 16th, 2020 at 03:24 PM. |
#4051
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
@Knight of Scape
and
@Aratrea
and I had a 5-point custom several years ago:
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#4052
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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#4053
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Pel was a nice design that effectively had no powers.
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#4054
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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#4055
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Even if they're negative powers, they change gameplay. Pel's inability to move while engaged affects decisions for positioning, and his inability to lock down figures greatly decreases his value with Ravagers.
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#4056
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Yeah, negative powers are still powers. Pel's may not always be an issue given he just wants to smash the thing in front of him. No powers at all would be interesting, you'd just look at the stats.
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