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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old December 14th, 2014, 04:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Vote for Public Playtesting

Yea
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  #38  
Old December 14th, 2014, 11:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Vote for Public Playtesting

yea

I know that I do not know.
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  #39  
Old December 15th, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Vote for Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
I propose we move Karnilla to Public Playtesting

VOTES
A3n - Yea
johnny139 - Yea
Karat - Yea
quozl - Yea
SirGalahad - Yea
TrollBrute - Yea
This proposal passes.

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  #40  
Old December 20th, 2014, 04:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Karnilla

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
Pass
- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the game.
Pass
- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
Pass
- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit too powerful or too weak.
Pass
- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
Pass
- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
Pass
- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
Pass
- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass
- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
Pass
- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
Pass
_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 310-330
- Give a brief overview. Well, when she fails to bring the chosen Hero over to her side, it's really tough to make up her value. This was a big loss, but had she converted Hercules, it would have probably been a win.
Map: Country Road

Units: Karnilla (330), Heimdall (390), Fandral (280) (1000) VS Ms. Marvel (350), Hercules (360), Doctor Fate (290) (1000)
Unit Summary:
Damage: 3 wounds to Doctor Fate.
You Will Be Mine...: 0 out of 3 rolls.

Spoiler Alert!



Army Test 2
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 300-330
- Give a brief overview. Again, Karnilla had pretty bad luck, failing all 4 times she rolled for You Will Be MineÖ. Another loss, but had she turned Hercules, it would have been an easy win.
Map: Country Road

Units: Karnilla (330), Heimdall (390), Fandral (280) (1000) VS Ms. Marvel (350), Hercules (360), Doctor Fate (290) (1000)
Unit Summary:
Damage: 3 wounds to Doctor Fate.
You Will Be Mine...: 0 out of 4 rolls.

Spoiler Alert!



Army Test 3
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 330-360
- Give a brief overview. I rematched one of the games from the Initial to see how much effect the changes had. Karnillaís team won by a large margin, though a failed YWBM roll in the last round could have lead to a different outcome. The Moloids sheer numbers, plus Carnage and Karnillaís big attacks meant the Hawks were almost always at a disadvantage, but they put up a fight.
Map: Conflict Chernobyl

Units: Karnilla (330), Moloids x14 (140), Carnage (280) (750) VS Hawkman (225), Hawkgirl (225), Hawkmen of Thanagar x3 (300) (750 points)
Unit Summary:
Damage: 1 Hawkman destroyed, 3 wounds to Hawkman.
You Will Be Mine...: 1 out of 2 rolls.

Spoiler Alert!


Karnilla's very swingy -as any D20-dependent, permanent controller is- and I could see her cost edging up a bit more, or her Defense down one. I found her pretty balanced on my games though, and the first two really show how she can struggle when the dice don't go her way. Still, a very fun unit, nicely thematic.

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  #41  
Old December 20th, 2014, 07:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

Awesome, thanks TB!

So far so good; I could see her cost creeping up if needed, though I hesitate to lower her defense for thematic reasons.

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  #42  
Old December 22nd, 2014, 10:31 AM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

A report in from Sock. 330 seems to be fine from his games, though he ran her in some odd armies. It seems like he's not a fan of the design due to its simplicity, but I'm not interested in adding more powers for the sake of adding more powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT: Karnilla

- THEME TEST
Pass

- MIRROR TEST
Pass


- BONDING TEST
Pass


- SYNERGIES TEST
Pass


- POWER CHECK
Pass
, she doesn't seem broken, although as soon as she nabs her love, and if that person is of any decent power/point value, it REALLY sways the battle. So it's essentially a race to either kill her, or she takes your best character. I'd be curious to see out of how many playtests, how closely the game result is tied to whether she successfully takes her love or dies first.

- FUN TEST
Pass
, however, here's my main concern with her. Is this really the most fun design for her? She is a 2 power character, one which isn't unique, and the other which is a 1 time use, other than the minor effect of not being able to attack. So my concern is, is this fun? I'm not saying it's not, I'm just making sure that it's given the amount of thought and attention it deserves before it goes further. I'm worried she'll be nothing more than a normal attack character for 90% of the game, with an added advantage of taking a big point character away from your opponent. There's not a lot of depth there.

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST
Pass

- DRAFTING TEST
Pass

- USAGE TEST
Pass


- STRATEGY TEST
Pass

_________________________________________________________

Army Test 1

Does it pass, Yes or No?
-Yes
What should be the unit's point value?
-310-330
Damage:
-2 wounds on Hogun.
Power Effectiveness:
-Failed roll 1 time out of 1 try.
Give a brief overview:
-Both teams moved together as one towards the center, over to the ruin. They battled it out, but the Warriors Three were too much for Karnilla. She died before she could take her love. Volstagg finished the job of the rest of the opposing team.
Map: Chernobyl(No Superstrength, Glyphs, or Destructible Objects)
Units:
Karnilla, Balder, Asgardian Warrior(940)
vs.
Warriors Three(920)

Spoiler Alert!



Army Test 2

Does it pass, Yes or No?
-Yes
What should be the unit's point value?
-330-340
Damage:
-0 wounds.
Power Effectiveness:
-Successful on the 2nd try.
Give a brief overview:
-Both teams had their heavy hitters come out from the start, leaving 1 or 2 behind. Karnilla went on the hunt, as Darkseid stayed back. Blob and Clayface tried locking people down, with Invisible Woman running support. Eventually after a couple casualties, Karnilla took Darkseid. Then, soon after, Enchantress swapped a wounded Robin for a wounded Blob. Leaving Army 2 battered and emotionally crushed, Army 2 decided to concede.
Map: Chernobyl(No Superstrength, Glyphs, or Destructible Objects)
Units:
Karnilla, Enchantress, Poison Ivy, Robin(995)
vs.
Darkseid, Clayface, Blob, Invisible Woman(1000)

Spoiler Alert!

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  #43  
Old December 22nd, 2014, 09:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

I found her to be more fun than I expected, to be honest. Sure, she's only got one unique power, but it drives a lot of the game when she's involved and makes for some interesting gameplay.

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  #44  
Old December 23rd, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - CRB/Initial Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
Seems fine to me, she'd work well with Loki, but that is a costly combo to begin with
Actually, even though I wish she did (they team up a couple times in the comics), she won't really work with Loki. For her to use both the Xs she'd need to be taking turns, meaning she needs at least 4 of the OMs; and since Loki needs at least 2 OMs, it just doesn't work out. If you put the two of them with a unit who can move OMs, then it works, but that gets extremely costly.
That combo would only work with Rogers or one of the Units with XXX Field Commander (Cyclops, Cable, Scandal). Fun combo, but kinda gimmicky and really expensive.
Just to put a bow on this... assuming new Rogers, it would be Karn, Rogers, Loki for 1000 even. After Rogers takes 1, Karn can take 2 and 3 and reveal an X on each.

It does increase Karn's chances of scoring her love by a good margin, but you're really sinking a ton of points into that trick. And if Karn's love doesn't have a good "X" power, then you're stuck with just deceptive teleportation from there on out.

Honestly, I think there are better Loki-Rogers combos out there. (Nightwing+Titans, or Zemo, or ProfX, all seem like pretty powerful ways to blow two X's.) I also like just running with Loki and no Rogers alongside strong X powers, and just accepting that Loki is going to have his nose in the action.

This is not to say that I think Karnilla is weak; I just don't think the Loki/Rogers gambit makes that much sense.
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  #45  
Old December 23rd, 2014, 01:34 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

Agreed. It's arguably Karnilla's best build (though I still would prefer Heimdall with her), but it's definitely not the best build for Loki+Rogers.

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  #46  
Old December 23rd, 2014, 09:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Agreed. It's arguably Karnilla's best build (though I still would prefer Heimdall with her), but it's definitely not the best build for Loki+Rogers.
Agreed. It's the build that will work best for YWBM..., but it doesn't make the best army. It was a combo I wanted to try, but I felt there were better builds with Heimdall or Moloids.

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  #47  
Old February 10th, 2015, 07:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

Asterius got his report in. She looks kind of underwhelming in his games, but she failed to get YWBM... in all of them. I'm comfortable with where she's at now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterius
Here you go.

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Karnilla)

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Unit Sum-up:
Damage:
Normal Attack: 4 wounds to Silver Samurai.
Power Usage:
You will be mine...: Chose Professor X didnít take over Professor X.
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Army 1: Karnilla, Heimdall and Fandral (1,000) VS Army 2: Professor X, Silver Samurai Gorgon, Blink and Dazzler (1,005)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Unit Sum-up:
Damage:
Normal Attack: 4 wounds to Superboy.
Power Usage:
You will be mine...: Chose Cosmic Boy didnít take over Cosmic Boy.
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Army 1: Karnilla, Odin and Asgardian Warriors (1,520) VS Army 2: Cosmic Boy, Wildfire, Timber Wolf, Superboy, Karate Kid and Bouncing Boy (1,530)
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Unit Sum-up:
Damage:
Normal Attack: 2 wounds to Kraven and 3 wounds to Conan.
Power Usage:
You will be mine...: Chose Ms. Marvel didnít take over Ms. Marvel.
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Army 1: Karnilla, Moloids x17 and Flash (Berry Allen) (750) VS Army 2: Ms. Marvel, Conan and Kraven(750)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: (She doesn't make up her points if you donít get You Will Be Mine other than that I think sheís good.)

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: (She's a fun unit I think You Will Be Mine would be fun but I never got it. I cant think of anything else.)

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  #48  
Old February 11th, 2015, 03:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Karnilla - Public Playtesting

Looking over the public playtests again, Karnilla's team won only 2 out of the 8 games. Both the games she won she successfully hit her roll, and all of the games she lost she failed to hit her roll. Taking it all together, I think she's good at 330. If she fails to hit her roll, or if she's facing an army with no good options, she's not going to make up her points worth; but if she can hit her roll against a good target, she'll be worth more than 330.

In short, I propose we move Karnilla to Final Editing as-is.

VOTES
@A3n - Yea
@johnny139 - Yea
@Karat - Yea
@Lord Pyre - Yea
@quozl - Yea
@SirGalahad -
@TrollBrute - Yea

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Last edited by Viegon; February 12th, 2015 at 10:32 AM.
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