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  #13  
Old June 12th, 2011, 04:52 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

I guess you've out-argued me. I like to reinforce that height should be equal for both sides, but with asymmetric maps and LoS blockers, it isn't necessary.
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  #14  
Old June 12th, 2011, 04:58 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robber View Post
I guess you've out-argued me. I like to reinforce that height should be equal for both sides, but with asymmetric maps and LoS blockers, it isn't necessary.


So get that guide out! I've learned much from your posts on maps. Would have saved me lots of time back when I was first starting.
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  #15  
Old June 12th, 2011, 06:06 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Working on it. If you don't mind, I think I'm going to post it in a new thread.
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  #16  
Old June 12th, 2011, 06:23 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Don't forget roads!!!

A good or a bad road is possibly even more important that glyphs or even height in some cases. Most often, you'll want a road in a low area, but have it make a purpose of some sort.

So, there are really three types of roads, as I like to think of them. You can do a connecting road, or a road that goes between the two start zones, making a connection. A good example of a connecting road is found in a classic BoV map Marr Highway. Notice how the road connects the start zones, yet skips over important features such as height.

Then, there are movement roads. A movement road is charichterized by the fact that it is intended to speed up movement in the center of the map, often designed in order to boost movement, making melee units more potent. These can often be seen by a looping shape, such as in Fossil.

On the other hand, you have a directional road. A directional road does not make a direct route between players, yet rather directs the players to something, or next to something desireabe, such as a large hill or a glyph. A good example would be another BoV map, Swamp Thing. Notice how there are seprate roads that each lead to height, rather than direct engagement with enemy troops in the start zone.
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  #17  
Old June 12th, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Great, Kaemon Awa 123! Do you mind if I quote this in the guide?

(I've already got it to a page and a half on Word)
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  #18  
Old June 12th, 2011, 06:36 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robber View Post
Great, Kaemon Awa 123! Do you mind if I quote this in the guide?

(I've already got it to a page and a half on Word)
Sure, go ahead... Take it with a grain of salt though, I'm not as good as you
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  #19  
Old June 12th, 2011, 06:47 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

A while ago I began compiling a list of features which can make a map melee-friendly. Were some good comments posted there regarding roads. And dok had some good things to say about small versus large areas of relative height. And some other stuff. Might be worth checking out.
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  #20  
Old June 12th, 2011, 07:11 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Interesting discussion. I'll add a few thoughts. One of the most important things about a map is pathing. Robber touched on this with his mention of movement blocking. There's nothing inherently wrong with movement blocking per se, if it's used judiciously - water is sort of the classic example of this. A lot of good maps use water to direct movement out of the start zones. Molten lava is often used in a similar way. Another example of this that's become more common lately is using battlements to slow an advance along a particular path.

Why think about pathing? For one, it's important when designing start zones to know how figures are going to get out of them, and where they're going to go once they're out. For another, a good map creates interesting decisions for players. You want a player to have to think about what direction to take his or her figures when they're moving across the map. A lot of good maps up the tension level of the decisions by making them more critical - meaning that, if you commit to a particular path, you're going to pay for switching paths later. Split start zones are a good example of a map that ups the decision level. A map that's designed like that rewards smart play.

Another thing to consider along the lines of pathing is first, second, and third turn moves for figures of varying movement points. I always count out moves for single and double spaced figures of four, five, and six move along my primary paths. You want to make sure that, for example, you don't place a bunch of elevation changes at four hexes from the start zones. If five move cost figures get to four spaces and suddenly find themselves confronted by an elevation change, they're going to hit a roadblock, effectively wasting a movement point. In the early game, that can be important. Six move figures will be able to traverse the elevation change. Worst six move cost figure in the game? Rats. I never want to give rats an advantage that isn't shared by many of the commonly used squads.
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  #21  
Old June 12th, 2011, 07:18 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Velenne has quite of few map making guides in blog forms. I find them quite useful.

Castles: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=272
Tundra: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=266
Lava: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=255
Roads: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=248
Basic Map Features: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=240
Advanced Map Making: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=232
Beginner Map Making: http://www.heroscapers.com/community/blog.php?b=230

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  #22  
Old June 12th, 2011, 08:30 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Interesting stuff on pathing, mad_wookiee. Very helpful.

LordEsenwienIV, thanks for posting the links to Velenne's blogs! I stumbled across those months and months ago, but forgot who composed them and could never track them down again. I've got them bookmarked now.
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  #23  
Old June 12th, 2011, 09:11 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Another thing I forgot to mention about pathing and counting movement is distance to glyphs. It's not enough to have equidistant glyphs from each start zone. You need to consider what figures can reach the glyphs in the first, second, and third turn. In short - eleven and twelve spaces from start is a death zone for glyphs, because it allows rats to hit the glyphs on turn two, but anything with a move of four or five takes three turns. That's bad design unless it's compensated for by allowing start zones on the road or something like that to balance out the number of turns for four and five move squads.

I'm less concerned about four move squads than five, to be honest, because there just aren't that many of them without flying or some other movement-based special. dok just died a little bit inside, but in reality, it's tough to design a map around Zombies. Still for me the optimal glyph spacing is between eight and ten from the start zones, but at least seven for flyers. That's pretty anal, I admit, but glyph spacing is so important to get right. And my thinking on this has evolved over time, so I'm sure if I went through my map thread I'd find maps that violate these rules. Failed Negotiations, for example, is one that I think realistically just shouldn't have glyphs, and one of these days I'll get around to fixing it.
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  #24  
Old June 12th, 2011, 09:22 PM
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Re: Heroscape Map Making Guide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaemon Awa 123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robber View Post
Great, Kaemon Awa 123! Do you mind if I quote this in the guide?

(I've already got it to a page and a half on Word)
Sure, go ahead... Take it with a grain of salt though, I'm not as good as you
I'm flattered

Thanks for all of the links from Velene, etc. I'll summarize them and cite them in the guide, which will be done tomorrow. My fingers got tired about an hour and a half ago, so I took a break and got off track...
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