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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old March 19th, 2021, 01:10 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Posting these up as I'm a tad worried about being able to stack Wildcat and Stick together with someone like Iron Fist. That combo essentially makes it so that any fighter he is training has less of a deterrent for re-rolling dice. One suggestion would be to make it "re-roll all dice" instead of "re-roll any or all dice". Basically make it an all or nothing second chance with repercussions. It helps minimize the effect of Wildcat as there were a couple of times where Stick's re-roll combined resulted in all skulls on 7-8 dice with Fist.

Quote:
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Stick

Version Tested
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 140-160?
- Give a brief overview. I chose poorly here. In hindsight I should have chosen Thing for Stick. His team still won but that had more to do with Thing than anyone else.

Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: Stick (160), Thing II (340), Wolverine (Laura) (280), Jessica Jones (220) {1.000} vs Green Goblin (230), Harley Quinn (130, Joker Goons (120, Black Mask (150), The Hood (180) Living Laser (190) {1,000}
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 150-160
- Give a brief overview. This game ended closer than it felt in the beginning. Stacking Wildcat and Stick on a Fighter like Ironfist was absolutely brutal early game. There was a bit where I thought he might take the entire other army. Then Thing gave them grief and then it evened out from there.

Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: Stick (160), Thing II (340), Iron Fist (260), Wild Cat (240), 2xSkrull Infiltrator (20) {1,020} vs Songbird (180), Metoerite (210), Atlas (270), Radioctive Man (160), Mach I (200) {1,020}

Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 160-170
- Give a brief overview. Really rough go here for the Mutants. Re-rolling dice for Wolverine with both Stick and Wildcat was frightening.

Map: Grundy's Grave
Units: Stick (160), Casy Jones (130), Wild Cat (240), Luke Cage (1900), Wolverine (280) {1,000}vs Sabretooth (270), Scarlet Witch II (255), Colossus (AoA) (315), Wild Child (160) {1,000}
Spoiler Alert!

Karat's THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Overall, I like him. I still think pairing him with Wildcat and going all in on someone is scary but like others have mentioned is a bit of a risk. I do think that being able to pair him up like that might drive his cost up slightly, but he's definitely interesting and draftable. I did not target him but in hindsight I probably should which limits the effectiveness of the doubling up too. It was nice to see Stick get that failure wound in on that last game though.

Opponent's THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Overall, I'd say first game was a wash for Stick, with his trainee tanking almost right away before anything could much be done and Stick himself not faring much better.

Second game double buffed Iron Fist saw some heavy action rolling TONS of skulls and one shotting a T-bolt or two before being taken out. Stick himself didn't get to shine as brightly due to Mach-I staying as far away as possible, but Stick still managed to win out in the end.

The third game saw Harsh Sensei paired with Wildcat's Fight Coach both stacked on Wolverine (whose healing factor is set up perfectly to ignore Stick's strict discipline if he fails an attack). Wolverine paired with Luke Cage and the option to use Casey Jones instead of Luke was a nice team to have. Wolverine basically slaughtered and with the option for two varying rerolls (even after the interference of Scarlet Witch II) gave Logan almost all skulls a majority of the time. OP combo.

For Stick himself, Fighter synergies are great for Stick and he has solid stats, but he will be spending most of the game sitting in back patiently waiting for what comes. As is I would put Stick at 165-175 range. An alternative is he could either have you reroll all your dice (which would still be worth it most every time for Leas and some special attacks, while normal attack is more of a risk unless paired with Wildcat). Plus it would give off a Fighter kind of all or nothing vibe. Or you could add some clear "no additional rerolls" type wording (excising Fight Coach) and he'd be worth 150-160ish maybe.

Last edited by Karat; March 20th, 2021 at 07:20 PM.
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  #38  
Old March 19th, 2021, 01:12 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Preliminary thoughts from Splash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash
Overall, I'd say first game was a wash for Stick, with his trainee tanking almost right away before anything could much be done and Stick himself not faring much better.

Second game double buffed Iron Fist saw some heavy action rolling TONS of skulls and one shotting a T-bolt or two before being taken out. Stick himself didn't get to shine as brightly due to Mach-I staying as far away as possible, but Stick still managed to win out in the end.

The third game saw Harsh Sensei paired with Wildcat's Fight Coach both stacked on Wolverine (whose healing factor is set up perfectly to ignore Stick's strict discipline if he fails an attack). Wolverine paired with Luke Cage and the option to use Casey Jones instead of Luke was a nice team to have. Wolverine basically slaughtered and with the option for two varying rerolls (even after the interference of Scarlet Witch II) gave Logan almost all skulls a majority of the time. OP combo.

For Stick himself, Fighter synergies are great for Stick and he has solid stats, but he will be spending most of the game sitting in back patiently waiting for what comes. As is I would put Stick at 165-175 range. An alternative is he could either have you reroll all your dice (which would still be worth it most every time for Leas and some special attacks, while normal attack is more of a risk unless paired with Wildcat). Plus it would give off a Fighter kind of all or nothing vibe. Or you could add some clear "no additional rerolls" type wording (excising Fight Coach) and he'd be worth 150-160ish maybe.

Last edited by Karat; March 20th, 2021 at 07:20 PM.
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  #39  
Old March 19th, 2021, 01:15 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Oof, yeah, good call on finding that combo. Makes me wish Wildcat were Vigilantes and Proteges instead of Fighters and Proteges.

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  #40  
Old March 19th, 2021, 07:55 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Nice find. The games still looked pretty close, so I'm not super concerned it's broken or anything - both Wildcat and Stick have a weakness to range, so you're putting a lot of eggs into one basket with that strategy. We could always add a line like "The chosen figure may not reroll any more dice this turn" to eliminate the combo entirely if it's too strong (though you could reroll with Wildcat first with that scenario). But I think I'd prefer Stick's points going up a tad if it's seeming a bit much.
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  #41  
Old March 19th, 2021, 09:03 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Annoying part about Wildcat's training is it endures even after he's dead. That's not the case for Stick at least.

And, yeah, if they put all their effort into one figure, that figure may be super juiced, but as soon as it falls your army probably falls apart.

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  #42  
Old March 19th, 2021, 08:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

The closeness of the finishes leans me to also think he's just not far off on price and can be balanced. The all in approach has been tried before where you draft multiple support units for one juiced beat stick. It's a gamble that can pay off, but it's still a gamble. I was happy to see Thing II in on the action here. I haven't seen him much in tests since being released.
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  #43  
Old March 19th, 2021, 09:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
The closeness of the finishes leans me to also think he's just not far off on price and can be balanced. The all in approach has been tried before where you draft multiple support units for one juiced beat stick. It's a gamble that can pay off, but it's still a gamble. I was happy to see Thing II in on the action here. I haven't seen him much in tests since being released.
I really like him. He's really solid.
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  #44  
Old March 20th, 2021, 07:21 PM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Updated with the third test and overall thoughts.
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  #45  
Old March 20th, 2021, 07:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Thanks Karat and Splash! We've got Eric's tests pending, so I'll wait for those before making any changes.
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  #46  
Old March 20th, 2021, 07:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Sounds good to me
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  #47  
Old March 22nd, 2021, 11:18 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Eric's tests:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericth74
Stick was great, really solid design.

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Stick

Version tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Sewer Labyrinth
Units: Luke Cage, Daredevil 200, Stick, Iron Man 250 VS Grim Reaper, Scorpion 200, Conan, Wizard
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Luke Cage, Daredevil 200, Stick, Human Torch 150 VS Green Arrow 150, Black Canary 190, Speedy 90, Batman 200, Robin 70
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Stick won both his games, one big, but his 160 points seems right. I feel like he is a must in a Luke Cage fighter team. I don't think he works as well with a Kingpin Assassin build because of his lack of bonding there, and the same with Masahiro Arashi builds.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: I really enjoyed playing Stick, he definitely played true to character. At first I thought he would play a cheerleader role, giving support to his chosen unit, but in reality he's just as solid to mix it up too. To me his strongest power is his Ruthless Counter Strike, opponents need to be aware of getting engaged with him, so you are aware of his spot on the battlefield. Blind Warrior fits his character but doesn't come up that often. Harsh Sensei is a great idea and is worth attempting most of the time, unless of course your chosen figure only has 1 life left, Like in my game 1. In that game I wasn't able to use the re-roll for that reason. Game 2 I got a few attempts, one of which missed but Daredevil took no damage. All in all a very good designed unit.
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  #48  
Old March 22nd, 2021, 11:24 AM
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Re: The Book of Stick (public testing)

Lots of wins in public testing, but most games were close - the big wins were due to a Wolverine that didn't die and failed Green Arrow/Speedy attacks. Would we feel okay moving on with a 20 point boost?
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