Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

Why not "If any excess shields are rolled, the attacking figure receives one unblockable wound." Triggers as easily as regular Counter Strike, but no more dangerous to heroes than it is to squads.

Necroblade wins.

[Nirek]

How about something like

Fledgling Counterstrike
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, re-rell all excess shields. Dice that show skulls count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

---

This gives a real Counterstrike flare (requires only 1 excess shield, so it will activate more frequently, has the potential to inflict more than one wound in certain situations), but cuts the probability of the activation causing a wound by 50%. That's certainly fledgling if you ask me.

[Gurei-Ornery]

Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal

Valiant personality. The suggestion is that GW+4th Mass would be broken against pure melee.

Pure melee against 4th Mass is already broken enough, so I see your point. Just make their personality Intrepid or Valorous.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Considering how with flight he will probably have flight most of the time, lets analyze him with five defense dice.
One attack die-1.233 is the average damage inflicted back.
Two attack dice-0.881 is average.
Three attack dice-0.611 is average.
Four attack dice-0.414 is average.
Five attack dice-0.274 is average. etc.
Using this I'd say nireks is the best idea because you have to risk the odds again to roll attack dice.

Gurei Ornery, the reason it would be valiant is Charos is valiant and the other wyrmlings personalities match up with their respective dragons: Braxas-Black, Zelrig-Red,Nilfheim-White, Blue-Quahon.

[Heroscaper Guy]

sorry double post

[vegietarian18]

Originally Posted by Nirek

How about something like

Fledgling Counterstrike
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, re-rell all excess shields. Dice that show skulls count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

---

This gives a real Counterstrike flare (requires only 1 excess shield, so it will activate more frequently, has the potential to inflict more than one wound in certain situations), but cuts the probability of the activation causing a wound by 50%. That's certainly fledgling if you ask me.

I really like this idea. It does about half the damage of a normal counterstrike on average, which is about what the other Wyrmling's powers tend to do. I think that you could give a Green Wyrmling 5 move, 3 attack, and 4 defense and this power and have a pretty balanced figure.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Necroblade wins.

NOPE, TOO POWERFUL AGAINST SQUADS....

I've done the tests.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox

NOPE, TOO POWERFUL AGAINST SQUADS....

I've done the tests.

This is how I read Necro's power:

FLEDGLING COUNTER STIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, if any excess shields are rolled the attacking figure receives one unblockable hit.

Isn't it just a weaker version of Counter Strike? Do you consider Counter Strike overpowered against squads? I'm honestly confused.

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

This is how I read Necro's power:

FLEDGLING COUNTER STIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, if any excess shields are rolled the attacking figure receives one unblockable hit.

Isn't it just a weaker version of Counter Strike? Do you consider Counter Strike overpowered against squads? I'm honestly confused.

My tests and the tests of other SOV judges showed how powerful Counterstrike really is. Then add in that they can fly and have a high Defense...it made them a dominating force against Tier 1 armies like Knights and 4th Mass.

A Greenie flies up and engages a squad figure...it either is forced to attack or let the Greenie attck him...and if you add in other wrmlings like Reds and Blacks...squads have no shot. I gave my thumbs down to that version of fledging counterstrike way back in the begining of the SoV...my tests proved they were devestating to squads and were hands down "broken"

[Unhinged Manchild]

This is an interesting convo... But I don't really see how counterstrike with def of 4 is overpowered against squads. I'm no playtester or anything, but seriously what squads are you playtesting these guys against? Rats and Blades? I would think that an attack of 3 would be able to avoid counterstrike to a reasonable extent... plus you have the fact that CS doesn't even work at range or against SAs. I can see how this power is going to hurt squads a little more than heroes, but isn't the heroscape metagame already littered with tons of squads anyway? It could be a nice step towards the HERO in heroscape

[Arch-vile]

4 defense becomes 7 defense quickly with height and Raelin (they can fly, so grabbing height is easy). Squads generally have 3 attack, which is counter-struck by 7 defense easily. I haven't played a Green Wyrmling, but I play the Samurai a lot and I know the power of counter strike.

I still think requiring 2 excess shields is going to be the best option here. It's simple and certainly won't be overpowered I'd think.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

This is an interesting convo... But I don't really see how counterstrike with def of 4 is overpowered against squads. I'm no playtester or anything, but seriously what squads are you playtesting these guys against? Rats and Blades? I would think that an attack of 3 would be able to avoid counterstrike to a reasonable extent... plus you have the fact that CS doesn't even work at range or against SAs. I can see how this power is going to hurt squads a little more than heroes, but isn't the heroscape metagame already littered with tons of squads anyway? It could be a nice step towards the HERO in heroscape

Capitalization and punctuation issues aside, I completely agree with this post.

Common squads still dominate the competitive metagame, so I don't see why anyone should be concerned about protecting them. In addition, if a weaker version of Counter Strike on a flying common hero proves too powerful against those [sarcasm]poor unloved common squads[/sarcasm], Defense can always be dialed down to compensate. I just don't see a problem here.