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  #25  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:11 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finrod View Post
I backed it and encouraged others to do the same. I would do so again.

I still love Heroscape. Always will.

I'm happy for the gang that enjoys C3V and so on, but it's not for me. No offense at all: I think you're doing great work. But after the first wave or two, I gave up on it. The difficulty and expense of trying to track down the various miniatures used was too much (especially when one member of a squad could only be obtained with buying a big pack, etc.). I lost my motivation.

So when AoA showed up, I jumped at the chance, returned to this forum for the first time in forever, and got excited.

And then the excitement faded day by day. I was mocked on FB and BGG. The campaign faltered from the beginning. We all knew it would fail after the first week, but we tried to tell ourselves lies, with various degrees of success.

And now the chance is over and gone. I'm just sad.
Some of the C3V/SOV are definitely hard and expensive to find and get, especially the Confrontation stuff, but there's still many of them that can be found for a few bucks a figure online, and many large ones for less than $10. It'd suggest buying them in batches for one shipping cost when possible instead of shipping per figure.

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  #26  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:17 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I don't have many of the "recommended" C3V figures, but I have all the cards! I just proxy most of them, and that works fine. I have lots of different kinds of figures, and just plug them in. Its the cards that are the heart of the game, not the figures.
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  #27  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:27 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Just to put it on record: I personally would not (and will not, in the unlikely event it becomes relevant) support another crowdfunding effort from Hasbro for Heroscape (or, really, for anything). If they want to invest in bringing Heroscape back at some point, I'd consider supporting the official product then (probably just terrain), but I'm not interested in supporting the return of "official" product with more zeal than they do themselves and won't be going down that road again.
This 100%. We did our part, now they need to make a commitment if they want our money again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Because of seemingly how much time and focus was spent on lore, releases 2-3 years down the road, new Valkyrie generals, concept art, a new brand bible... I'm thinking relaunch was never originally intended to be a Haslab. Spending time on any of that stuff does not make sense for a game that doesn't yet exist.
Don't forget the app that they started developing right after the campaign began.
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  #28  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:31 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

I think the lack of multiple tiers and the double talk of "We have so much planned for HeroScape"/"If it doesn't back it's over" pushed away a lot of potential backers.

Connected to the multiple tiers was the idea that they wanted one all-in package that provided good value, but as a commenter on reddit said, they could have provided value by using cardboard mats like AotP. If there was a basic tier that used cardboard mats and an addon upgrade for the full terrain stack that could've helped. And having addons let's you attract gamers from other franchises (Gloomhaven?) who are interested just in terrain or minis.
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  #29  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:53 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...144007420.html

Hope Hasbro tries to sell some other stuff as well, if they're looking to just focus on core brands.

Hope Restoration Games and/or Soaring Rhino games are looking to buy stuff.

Hope that message of not making books of AoA stuff yet might play into things.

I'll also take the various playtesters still testing and finalizing things and maybe releasing hypothetical stats only or something.

I'm currently at the bargaining stage lol.

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  #30  
Old November 17th, 2022, 11:59 AM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finrod View Post
I backed it and encouraged others to do the same. I would do so again.

I still love Heroscape. Always will.

I'm happy for the gang that enjoys C3V and so on, but it's not for me. No offense at all: I think you're doing great work. But after the first wave or two, I gave up on it. The difficulty and expense of trying to track down the various miniatures used was too much (especially when one member of a squad could only be obtained with buying a big pack, etc.). I lost my motivation.

So when AoA showed up, I jumped at the chance, returned to this forum for the first time in forever, and got excited.

And then the excitement faded day by day. I was mocked on FB and BGG. The campaign faltered from the beginning. We all knew it would fail after the first week, but we tried to tell ourselves lies, with various degrees of success.

And now the chance is over and gone. I'm just sad.
I'm unaware of any minis that you need to buy a big pack for. I think when announced the C3V minis are typically between $3-$7 it's just tracking down the past releases that is expensive
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  #31  
Old November 17th, 2022, 12:04 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Speculation: Along the way something happened (poor quarterly earnings report?) and a Hasbro executive said this project needs to pay its own way and it needs to be wrapped up before Thanksgiving. Then Avalon Hill had to scramble and we have the mess of a campaign we just experienced. Either that or there was major overconfidence based on the Heroquest campaign and the subsequent expansions they've been selling for it and they thought this game would sell itself.
This is fairly reckless speculation but it definitely felt like this or something similar. There's no way the campaign that released was the full campaign they planned to release - either they were lazy (I find that incredibly unlikely) or shortstaffed (also unlikely bc they couldve gotten almost anyone they wanted form the community to volunteer) or Hasbro sped up the time table on them out of the blue
All of it is fairly reckless speculation because the Hasbros will never tell us anything about their miserable failure of a campaign, so speculation is all we have.

But I think Knox is probably closest to the truth on this. You don't spend a year, at least not full time and with a large "War Council," on a project and all you have is what they showed us. So much of it was undeveloped. I mean they kept saying, we can't show you stuff because the 3d printers are all being used right now. So you didn't print ALL the stuff ahead of time for the campaign?!!!

No, they were working on it at a decent pace, maybe thought they had another 6-9 months, but were pressured to bump up the production schedule by a LOT, which gave us the trainwreck we all witnessed. I mean how does a $9 billion toy and game company fail so badly, on their own (lame) platform, to present a decent toy/game to its customers?

I will reiterate what others have said, too many new factions, too much stuff all at once, no need for new generals, too much time telling us "We have all this stuff planned down the road, stuff you'll REALLY like (historical, commons) but you've just got to buy this stuff for now, THEN we'll give you what you actually want." and not enough time actually developing what they actually were trying to sell us.

I'm really going to try to give the Team who created this stuff the benefit of the doubt and say that the worst decisions were not theirs but Hasbro execs, but this thing was an absolute mess from Day 1 of the launch. It really was a slap in the face to the Heroscape community.
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  #32  
Old November 17th, 2022, 12:11 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
I'm unaware of any minis that you need to buy a big pack for. I think when announced the C3V minis are typically between $3-$7 it's just tracking down the past releases that is expensive
There are some, but to my knowledge any minis that come in a pack the intent is to, eventually, use all of them in VC so there's no wasted $$.

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  #33  
Old November 17th, 2022, 12:13 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
I'm unaware of any minis that you need to buy a big pack for. I think when announced the C3V minis are typically between $3-$7 it's just tracking down the past releases that is expensive
There are some, but to my knowledge any minis that come in a pack the intent is to, eventually, use all of them in VC so there's no wasted $$.
Right. I meant I don't think you need to buy a big pack for just 1-2 minis. Buying a big pack for several minis (a la Blood of Gruumsh, Wolfen & Ram army boxes when they were released) is usually a great bargain
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  #34  
Old November 17th, 2022, 12:26 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knox View Post
I'm unaware of any minis that you need to buy a big pack for. I think when announced the C3V minis are typically between $3-$7 it's just tracking down the past releases that is expensive
There are some, but to my knowledge any minis that come in a pack the intent is to, eventually, use all of them in VC so there's no wasted $$.
Right. I meant I don't think you need to buy a big pack for just 1-2 minis. Buying a big pack for several minis (a la Blood of Gruumsh, Wolfen & Ram army boxes when they were released) is usually a great bargain
The only thing I can think of that might've been too much at once was the six pack release of Clawfoot Interceptors, but that could be interesting to try Plus, I use them as two squads worth of proxies for any of the Kyrie squads.

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  #35  
Old November 17th, 2022, 01:16 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

My understanding is that all figures for C3V have 3D printing available as an option. So price and availability shouldn't be a barrier if someone is willing to get them printed and deal with them being unpainted or do the painting (so basically they're as good as the official product on this front).

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #36  
Old November 17th, 2022, 01:31 PM
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Re: AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerDad74 View Post

All of it is fairly reckless speculation because the Hasbros will never tell us anything about their miserable failure of a campaign, so speculation is all we have.

But I think Knox is probably closest to the truth on this. You don't spend a year, at least not full time and with a large "War Council," on a project and all you have is what they showed us. So much of it was undeveloped. I mean they kept saying, we can't show you stuff because the 3d printers are all being used right now. So you didn't print ALL the stuff ahead of time for the campaign?!!!

No, they were working on it at a decent pace, maybe thought they had another 6-9 months, but were pressured to bump up the production schedule by a LOT, which gave us the trainwreck we all witnessed. I mean how does a $9 billion toy and game company fail so badly, on their own (lame) platform, to present a decent toy/game to its customers?

I will reiterate what others have said, too many new factions, too much stuff all at once, no need for new generals, too much time telling us "We have all this stuff planned down the road, stuff you'll REALLY like (historical, commons) but you've just got to buy this stuff for now, THEN we'll give you what you actually want." and not enough time actually developing what they actually were trying to sell us.

I'm really going to try to give the Team who created this stuff the benefit of the doubt and say that the worst decisions were not theirs but Hasbro execs, but this thing was an absolute mess from Day 1 of the launch. It really was a slap in the face to the Heroscape community.
As it was previously stated on this thread, the project was run by a member of Avalon Hill who had never played Heroscape before the project began, and as you mentioned, they were apparently working on preparations for over a year, yet the Haslab page was a rushed mess without any meaningful information at launch.

It is reasonable to blame Hasbro for their lack of support for this crowdfunding project. It is also reasonable to blame Avalon Hill for a ****-poor management of this project.
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