C3G Unit Discussion - SSE S1 ; Part 2

[Yodaking]

Here are my rankings:

Spoiler Alert!

5th Precinct Beat Cops – 3
I understand their value and why some people rank them highly, soaking up wounds inflicted to a more important unit is a solid contribution. I personally just don't find them all that interesting or useful for my particular play style. They really only give you defense and nothing on offense, then I don't like having to make an investment in keeping them close as I'm often charging ahead with my heroes looking for a quick KO. Then I also use lots of AoE or multiple attack units, which can clean out the cops pretty quickly when my opponent takes them.

Batman I – 3
He's certainly a solid unit. When paired up with Robin/Gordon/Alfred/etc. and taking on low level criminal types he's a lot of fun. I have a long list of other 200 point units I like more than him though, in part due to the fact I can add them into a wide range of armies and they would shine without needing to draft a supporting cast.

Black Canary I – 4
She's punched above her weight for me many times when the dice get on a roll, quickly taking down 230+ point cards before they can react. Canary Cry is also a solid AoE ability good for clearing out mobs or indirectly hitting invisible types. She can fall rather quickly though, which is what holds her back from a 5 star rating.

Catwoman I – 3
I can still remember one of our big brawls where someone took Catwoman and she whipped a bunch of people into the grave. Always had a soft spot for her ever since. Stray can keep her alive and moving about picking up loose equipment glyphs, while the high life can be used as a wound soak.

Count Vertigo – 2
I just haven't had much luck with him in my games. Seems like he never does enough to really change the course of the game to me so I'd rather just spend those point elsewhere.

Darkseid – 3
Never really a bad option due to the number of dice he can roll and hits he can tank. The slow move of 4 hurts though and his Parademons are just not very good, which means he gets passed over when looking for themed armies to run. If you are not going to draft him based on theme, then I feel their are more interesting ways to spend this many points.

Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) – 3
I actually use him quite a bit in both Archer based army builds or with Black Canary, so he sees the table and is a solid pick in those armies. I always have high hopes for the d20 roll resulting in no defense dice followed up by a 3-4 skull attack roll, but the stars never seem to align for me. As such I take other units at or around this price point when looking for filler.

Hawkgirl – 4
Haven't used her in a while but I really like her quite a bit. She can really bring the pain when able to swoop in every time you use her. Hawkmen squad can help with that and sending her out first means your Hawkman becomes a great clean up unit.

Joker I – 4
Haven't used him since the reevaluation so maybe he should come down some in time, but for now he's still a great pick in my mind. Really like this Joker with HQI, they make for an annoying pair for your opponent to deal with. He's changing your OM's on you, while she just won't go down and keeps engaging you.

Solomon Grundy – 4
I sometimes just take him and toss him into an army as filler. The big attack is really nice for chopping down foes, especially when he just suddenly appears next to them after previously being killed. Always lead out with him and force your opponent to deal with him early. He's only worth his points when he comes back from the grave at least once, rarely disappoints if he comes back twice in one game. So be aggressive with him. Allies who can throw a turn his way when he suddenly shows up out of no where are also a key to his success.

Street Thugs – 2
Not a big common squad player in general so most of them get lower grades from me. I do think we've made some newer more interesting crime lords recently though that makes me think I should give them another go here one of these days. The early era crime lord bonding options were not great though, which held them back in my previous games.

Superman I – 2
I gravitate towards Superman II anytime I feel the urge to play him, the running around saving people is accurate to his character, but not something I want to account for when positioning my units. Still has a good stat block though and sometimes getting Superman at a 50 point discount can be a good option when army building.

Two-Face – 2
One of the Crime Lords I tired out with the Street Thugs back in the day and then didn't use again. He's too easy to take out quickly for him to mess around and not attack when it's his turn to go.

Invisible Woman – 4
You draft her for what she can do for your defensively, but she's also surprised me with some solid hits on offense every once in a while. Best with Reed since he can activate her when she needs to be moved while wrapping up any assassins heading her way. Have found reasons to use her without him every once in a while too.

Human Torch – 4
Flame On is just crazy good and then he can also fly around grabbing high ground and attack at range while looking for a chance to use Flame On.

Mister Fantastic – 4
Pulls the Fan4 together into a really solid army. Just be patient with him if not hitting on the d20 early, keep everyone close together and slow roll towards your opponents. The d20 will heat up eventually and then look out.

Thing – 4
Actually pretty swingy in effectiveness. Can be a 5 star one game and clobber half the opponents team, then a dud the next game when he's never in position to go off on anyone. Even when rolling 10 defense dice I don't seem to get Rock Wall to trigger very often. The whole Fan4 together is a solid 4 army though, so he's a 4 just like the other 3.

She-Hulk – 4
Really like her set up a lot and even stopped using her for testing because she seemed nearly impossible to deal with at end game when saved in reserve to be used as a clean up unit. If she comes out early though, then you can usually take her out if you focus on her. The single melee attack on a unit that doesn't fly is the only real drawback here and why I didn't give her 5 stars. If she were to get a solid bonding partner someday though, watch out.

Annihilus – 3
Bringing the Invaders helps boost him up into a solid pick. Still need another hero in that army though to really make them viable so you don't have to put him directly into the line of fire so early in the match.

Doctor Doom – 3
He's got a lot of neat tricks, but for some reason I never really feel like grabbing him when drafting. I think he's fallen rather quickly for me a few times, so I feel as though I must bring some Doombots as a fail safe, but then they really aren't that great and the points just start piling up too quickly. I think a new Doombot card might help turn that around.

Doombot – 2
Outside of giving you a second lease on life when drafting Doom, they aren't really useful for anything else. Then I've missed my decoy roll enough times that I just would rather play a different army right now.

Mole Man – N/A
Never used him.

Moloid – N/A
Never used them.

Puppet Master – 3
Before the reevaluation he was pretty nutty, now he's just a solid pick when you build your army around making him shine. Don't feel like he's that great as a filler unit though, he wants some support. At end game, if it's 1v1 then he can't do much to bring home the win.

Skrull Warriors – N/A
I think I may have played them once or twice a long time ago, but not really sure.

Super-Skrull (Kl’rt) – N/A
I know I've played him more than once, it's just been a while and I don't have any big memories of it good or bad. I know he's a Champion and Champion synergy has increased a bunch, but he's still not used much as the theme is all wrong.

Cyclops - 3
Overshadowed by Prof X as a mutant leader. Still a really good SA and some leadership abilities means he can be pretty effective in short spurts. Doesn't have great staying power though, so keep him in the back early game.

Angel - 5
Mobility boost for any army combined with a defensive protector means he can add value to just about any army build you can think of. Harder to put down than you would think too. Great value at 90 points.

Blob – 5
I play a lot of armies with just 4-5 Unique Heroes and I really don't like seeing him in my opponents army as a result. He can easily take one of your options away from you early in the game just by engaging them. You end up wasting so many turns punching the blubber. Can be really nasty when paired up with Magneto II and he throws units at Blob and gets multiple figures stuck.

Beast – 3
He's a solid unit, and when played smartly can really impact the opponents turns. I just don't get excited about him enough to draft him on a regular basis. Too many mutants, not enough C3G games.

Iceman – 3
A solid SA that drops into the mutant synergy web. Happy to take him when looking to fill in a 150 point spot. Just too many mutants, not enough C3G games.

Jean Grey – 4
I use her enough outside of the classic X-Men army that she one of it's break out stars and gets the bump up to 4 stars.

Magneto I – 1
Magneto II gets the nod every time over him. So much so that I'm not sure when I would opt for this version of the card.


Mystique I - 2

I've tried using her a variety of different ways and just never felt she was worth the points investment. Most likely due to the fact that Blob is at the same price point and clearly a very good investment. One of the issues I find with her is how two of her powers want opposite things. She wants to be next to the enemy and take advantage of the Incognito power and make it so others can't shoot at her while she can shoot at them. But then the Engagement Strike power wants you to have your opponent to engage you first. If you wait to let your opponent engage you first, then they can instead just stand back and shoot you. So you engage first to prevent being shot at, but now you are engaged with someone without making them first face the Engagement Strike and thus defeated your own power.



Pyro - 2

Living Flames just never turns into much considering all the text dedicated too it. Then he seems to die on me before ever making much use out of Engulf.



Toad - 2
Hated his mini so much I just didn't draft him out of spite when he first came out. I've used him a handful of times since as more brotherhood units came out, but just never found him to be anything special. Just doesn't have the synergy or passive powers needed to shine as a low cost unit and I usually have somewhere else I'd rather place my OM's.

[IAmBatman]

If you want to use Doctor Doom competitively, Moloids are a must, IMO.

Seems we all agree that Blob is one of the strongest of this initial bunch.

[japes]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

I'm definitely interested in exploring "alternate win condition" mechanics, fwiw.

I should have something to put on display soonish...

[Dysole]

I see none of y'all have ever had to play against dok's Beat Cops/Red Skull build.

~Dysole, who found it HIGHLY frustrating

[japes]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I see none of y'all have ever had to play against dok's Beat Cops/Red Skull build.

~Dysole, who found it HIGHLY frustrating

was any of that after the Cube got nerfed? But yeah it's a frustrating build.

[Dysole]

Originally Posted by japes

was any of that after the Cube got nerfed? But yeah it's a frustrating build.

I think at least one nerf had happened with the Cube. Beat Cops are really good at keeping E-glyphs on figures. That's really their strongest role.

~Dysole, who could go look up the exact build but it was sick

EDIT: Found it

Donatello, Red Skull [Johann Schmidt], Robot [Rudy Conners], Sandman [Wesley Dodds], Star-Lord [Peter Quill], 5th Precinct Beat Cops x2

[IAmBatman]

I mean, Red Skull, Robot, and Star-Lord are probably all A-level figures, so while the Cops are useful in that build, I don't seem them as really driving it.

What they're doing is buying you six attacks for the most part, which against a strong army is about a round or a tad more. Useful, but not all-world, IMO.

Does dok play C3G anymore?

[Dysole]

Dok and I admittedly don't play a ton since we stopped running tournaments. @dok

Tagging him in case he decides to come in and explain further why beat cops are really good.

Anyway, blocking six attacks with that build is really good especially due to all the E-glyph shenanigans you can do with those six attacks.

~Dysole, noting that they're kinda like deathreavers in that their biggest role is making the good parts of your army better

[IAmBatman]

Sure. Though it's a bit weird you have Moloids ranked so lowly in that case, as Moloids are a lot like Deathreavers too, IMO. Civilians as well.

[Arkham]

Rankings

Spoiler Alert!

5th Precinct Beat Cops – 4

Batman – 3

Black Canary – 4

Catwoman – 3

Count Vertigo – 3

Darkseid – 3

Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) (I) – 3

Hawkgirl – 4

Joker (I) – 3

Solomon Grundy – 2

Street Thugs – 2

Superman (I) – 3

Two-Face – 3

Invisible Woman – 4

Human Torch – 4

Mister Fantastic – 4

Thing – 3

She-Hulk – 4

Annihilus – 3

Doctor Doom – 3

Doombot – 3

Mole Man – ???

Moloid – ???

Puppet Master – 3

Skrull Warriors – ???

Super-Skrull (Kl’rt) – 3

Blob – 5

Angel - 5

Beast – 3

Iceman – 2

Jean Grey – 4

Cyclops - 3

Magneto (I) – ???

Toad - 3

[FreshFoods]

Rankings

Spoiler Alert!

Beat Cops : B/3
Offensively they’re bad, but they can soak up wounds for your units well. Parking them beside some ranged threat is their best bet.

Batman I : B-/3
At 200 points, he’s overshadowed by some of his peers. Evasive Strike isn’t super consistent, but it means he’s never out of the fight. Fine late game clean up unit.

Black Canary I : A-/4
Can be absolutely disgusting on the offensive, if Fists of Fury gets going. No defensive powers and needing to get into melee makes her rather vulnerable. Cupid’s Arrow and being a vigilante gives her a solid amount of diversity with her builds.

Catwoman I : C-/2
Not particularly bad, but pretty meh. Stray 13 and 9 lives theoretically gives her a lot of durability, but that 2 defense will really show when Stray fails. I could see her being ok in a 500-600 point game where most units are low cost, but anything pricier than her will be rough.

Count Vertigo : ???

Darkseid : B+/4
If you’ve got a way to get him into melee, his 8 attack/Imposing Presence will let him beat a majority of figures in a 1v1. Suffers hard from getting kited since his move is awful, and his synergies are lacking.

Green Arrow : A/4
Range 10 lets him attack from the other side of the planet. Works in all sorts of builds, Rarely a bad investment at 150.

Hawkgirl : A-/4
Has the potential to just deal a wild amount of damage. Usually only going to get 2-3 Hawk Swoop attacks off, but that’s enough for her to easily get her value back. Limited but solid synergies.

The Joker I : ???

Solomon Grundy : B/3
Horrifying if he can get into melee, and even after you kill him, he’s likely going to come back at least once. Pairing him with durable creatures is probably his best bet.

Street Thugs : C/2
The bonding is always useful, but these guys don’t do much themselves. Rule the Streets is useless on most maps, and their stats don’t make them too threatening. 4 bodies for 75 points is cheap though.

Superman I : A-/4
Wildly durable at 7 Def/Man of Steel. Excellent at guarding your weaker units, but Heroic Duty can be exploited. Also, plenty of units in his price range can give him a solid fight .

Two-Face I : D+/1
Flip of the Coin is just too inconsistent, not being able to take a turn 50% of the time is rough. Fairly squishy, average attack, and will probably die quickly if he gets close enough for Heads you Live, Heads you Die.

Invisible Woman : A-/4
Boosts the Fantastic Four to silly defense numbers, and provides a very respectable buff to non-adventurers/scientists. Non-FF armies would probably want to spend her 215 points elsewhere, but she can be a great take to buff a pricey unit even more.

Human Torch : A-/4
Strategy thread helped me realize I was using him wrong, and turned my opinion on him. Throwing him in and using Flame On 4 lets him absolutely tack on the wounds, and lets him get beat up for Thing. Solid range attack with 6 Range/4 Atk.

Mr. Fantastic : A/4
The gear that makes the Fantastic Four turn. Fantastic Leader and Rubber Wrap and just excellent powers, making him an OM hub that keeps enemies away from Invisible Woman. Fantastic Leader gives him solid versatility, as there are some solid Adventurer options.

Thing : B+/4
The heavy hitter of his family. Clobberin’ Time means you HAVE to kill his allies, and not just leave them at low life. Rock Wall Defense activates often when he's backed by Invisible Woman as well. Not the greatest heavy hitter solo, but gets exponentially stronger with the FF.

She Hulk : A/4
I’d say she’s juuuuust outside of my top 50. Ridiculously tough to kill, in a late game 1v1 she can take on the best of them. Solid adventurer synergy, great stats, and isn’t THAT pricy.

Annihilus : C/2
Overshadowed as an expensive centerpiece unit. As soon as he loses his rod, he’s just a fine attacker. Synergies are very limited as well.


Doctor Doom : A-/4
One amazing power, and one solid power with both on a 14+ keeps them from being crazy tough to land. A great statline helps him out too.

Doombot : C/2
Designed to work with Doom, they’re a waste of points without him. Running one or two of them with Doom makes him tough to put down.

Mole Man : ???

Moloids : ???

Puppet Master : ???

Skrull Warriors : D/1
Really gonna need to see some more Skrull love for these guys to work. A 2 unit squad at 110 needs to be pretty crazy to be brought consistently IMO, and the Skrull Warriors don’t have it.

Super-Skrull (Kl’rt) : B-/3
A generally solid unit. Rock Wall Bounce Back makes him solid at fighting units in his price range. Need to try him with JL builds when the Champion synergies start rolling out.

Blob : A+/5
Value wise, the best unit defensively in the game. Crazy defense, Locks figures down, Needs some serious focus to kill. A steal at 165

Cyclops I : B/4
Solid ranged blaster. Has good versatility with Mutant Field Commander and Telepathic Rapport.

Angel : A+/5
Another insane value unit. Professor X almost needs him, but can be very solid filler at 90 points for most armies.

Beast : C+/3
Not bad, but the most replaceable member of the Original X-Men. Mostly a standard melee beater, Negotiation gives him some depth. In a perfect world, He and Iceman kneecap your opponent hard.

Iceman : B-/4
Solid ranged special attacker. A 4 range/5 attack special is solid at 150.

Jean Grey : A+/5
Best member of the Original X-Men IMO. So much value in both of her powers, and the rolls aren’t too tough to hit most of the time. If she’s rolling decently, she negates melee units.

Magneto I : C/2
Really outclassed by Magneto II. His marker feels a little clunky, and just doesn’t feel like he provides what I expect from a 310 point unit.

Mystique I : ???

Pyro : ???

Toad : B/3
Solid 95 unit. However, he’s priced so closely to Angel that he gets grossly overshadowed.

[Yodaking]

Looks like I missed Angle on the list. So I'll edit him into my list. Pretty safe bet everyone has him down as a 5 star.


*edit* Missed Cyclopes too. I just followed Bat's list so let me know if I missed any others.