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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #313  
Old July 10th, 2019, 03:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Yeah we did. A large majority were in favor of no cap.
I mean, not sure what y'all expect from the LD here, then .... Are you demanding a recount based on further arguments?

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  #314  
Old July 10th, 2019, 03:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

I had Hero approval on a no power T-Rex and was forced to change it by an angry mob.
I suggest trying to wrap this ASAP.
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  #315  
Old July 10th, 2019, 03:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

I believe all we're waiting on is mini pics.
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  #316  
Old July 10th, 2019, 03:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

Daredevil can get to like... 13 Attack with height and some leaders around. And attack six times in a single turn, too! With outliers like that you have to just sort of accept that things get wonky here and there.
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  #317  
Old July 10th, 2019, 04:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I guess my main thing is that no matter how many dice he rolls, he’s still less effective against those heavy hitters than Harley Quinn I (130 points) with her dodge. I feel like several people are treating it like he’s going to be regularly tanking hits from a Hulk or whatever, when statistically that’s not true.

If Hulk rolls 12 skulls like in your example, and Taskmaster rolls 17 defense dice, that means Taskmaster is averaging 5.66 shields, so he’s most likely dead in 1 hit. Sure there may be that rare 1 in 1,000 moment where he does manage to block a crazy hit from the Hulk, but it’s also possible for any unit to block an attack from the Hulk, just because of how the Heroscape dice work. Meanwhile Harley I with height and Cap has 5 defense dice and is far more likely to escape a 12 skull attack.

I feel like just because the mechanics on Taskmaster’s power are slightly different it’s being treated like some crazy new thing when it isn’t really.
This. Exactly this.
When stupid levels of agility and prediction get involved, what sort of hits you should be taking become less relevant.


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Daredevil can get to like... 13 Attack with height and some leaders around. And attack six times in a single turn, too! With outliers like that you have to just sort of accept that things get wonky here and there.

Yep - edge cases exist.


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  #318  
Old July 10th, 2019, 04:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I guess my main thing is that no matter how many dice he rolls, he’s still less effective against those heavy hitters than Harley Quinn I (130 points) with her dodge. I feel like several people are treating it like he’s going to be regularly tanking hits from a Hulk or whatever, when statistically that’s not true.

If Hulk rolls 12 skulls like in your example, and Taskmaster rolls 17 defense dice, that means Taskmaster is averaging 5.66 shields, so he’s most likely dead in 1 hit. Sure there may be that rare 1 in 1,000 moment where he does manage to block a crazy hit from the Hulk, but it’s also possible for any unit to block an attack from the Hulk, just because of how the Heroscape dice work. Meanwhile Harley I with height and Cap has 5 defense dice and is far more likely to escape a 12 skull attack.

I feel like just because the mechanics on Taskmaster’s power are slightly different it’s being treated like some crazy new thing when it isn’t really.
This. Exactly this.
When stupid levels of agility and prediction get involved, what sort of hits you should be taking become less relevant.
But I have already made clear and concise arguments that an expectation for him to have "stupid levels of agility and prediction" is 100% inaccurate. I'm sorry that work called me away while you had this vote, but I would have fought this just as much then. IMO, this is a case of the reverse of Batman I's power being true. In Batman's case, his Evasive Strike power was extremely effective, so much that he required additional testing to ensure he wasn't undercosted. In this case, no one came close to Taskmaster's potential. In only one test did he face a real Heavy Hitter and it happened to be the guy who can be basically negated by soothing him (and my read reveals that he was only enraged once and immediately soothed). No Superman, No Thor, No Invincible, No Asgardians, and No Marvel Family. I don't see how anyone can say its not an issue when it literally hasn't been tested against.

EDIT: Also, in the FF test, Taskmaster got killed before Thing could even build up much Attack via loss of his allies.

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  #319  
Old July 10th, 2019, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

Everything I’ve ever read or seen shows me that he does have agility and reflexes far above 99% of fighters. Certainly above Harley and Nightwing. He may not be exactly as good at each fighting style as the people he copies them from, but he is easily in the top 10 hand-to-hand combatants in Marvel, maybe top 5.

There not too many tests run against heavy hitters because he’s statistically more vulnerable against them than weaker figures. (There were tests against Silver Surfer, Thing, Starfire, Hulk, and the Wrecking Crew, who all can roll some heavy attack dice.) Most playtests try to put the tested characters in situation they excel in.

But if you want to do some playtests to try it out, I’ll hold off a week or so.
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  #320  
Old July 10th, 2019, 04:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

Maybe just a couple of heavy hitters of this guy + friend vs. Thor or someone would be enough?


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  #321  
Old July 10th, 2019, 05:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

The HQ & Nightwing 1 shield blocks all attacks all the time, or even a d20 vanish power that avoid 12 skull attacks, represents very specific character skills or traits that have shown that character avoiding attacks all together. We've rolled that concept into his card here, but only vs. ranged attacks. We agreed that once he's locked into melee combat, he's just another good fighter who can, and should, be hit. If splitting up ranged vs. melee attack defense is no longer something being advocated for, then why bother with the changing dynamic at all? Just give him HQ's power from the get go.
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  #322  
Old July 10th, 2019, 05:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

But he's not just another good fighter. He has the dodging skills of Spidey and Daredevil, the hand-to-hand skills of Cap and Punisher, and the martial arts skills of Iron Fist and Elektra. And while he's not a completely infallible computer type, it's all tied to his muscle memory so he has the reflexes to execute the perfect move at the perfect time.

He's pretty much every peak human character rolled into one and that's what makes him so dangerous. And I'm not coming at that from a fanboyish "look at how cool this character is" angle, because I'm not really that invested in him. That's just my honest assessment of the character from everything I've read him in and all the research I've done.

Giving him just a dodge up close doesn't fly with me because he's not always dodging, he's doing all the things listed above depending on the situation. And doing it as just a static defense boost doesn't feel like it captures the nature of the character nearly as well.
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  #323  
Old July 10th, 2019, 06:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

So I did the math on how his melee defense will play out on average. I'm not a mathematician so if I got anything wrong, let me know.
Quote:
-1 skull rolled on attack = 4 defense rolled = 1.33 shields rolled = 0 wounds taken
-2 skulls rolled on attack = 5 defense rolled = 1.66 shields rolled = 0.33 wounds taken
-3 skulls rolled on attack = 6 defense rolled = 2 shields rolled = 1 wounds taken
-4 skulls rolled on attack = 7 defense rolled = 2.33 shields rolled = 1.66 wounds taken
-5 skulls rolled on attack = 8 defense rolled = 2.66 shields rolled = 2.33 wounds taken
-6 skulls rolled on attack = 9 defense rolled = 3 shields rolled = 3 wounds taken
-7 skulls rolled on attack = 10 defense rolled = 3.33 shields rolled = 3.66 wounds taken
-8 skulls rolled on attack = 11 defense rolled = 3.66 shields rolled = 4.33 wounds taken
-9 skulls rolled on attack = 12 defense rolled = 4 shields rolled = 5 wounds taken
-10 skulls rolled on attack = 13 defense rolled = 4.33 shields rolled = 5.66 wounds taken
So to simplify, that is;
Quote:
-1 skull rolled on attack = 0 wounds taken
-2 skulls rolled on attack = 0.33 wounds taken
-3 skulls rolled on attack = 1 wounds taken
-4 skulls rolled on attack = 1.66 wounds taken
-5 skulls rolled on attack = 2.33 wounds taken
-6 skulls rolled on attack = 3 wounds taken
-7 skulls rolled on attack = 3.66 wounds taken
-8 skulls rolled on attack = 4.33 wounds taken
-9 skulls rolled on attack = 5 wounds taken
-10 skulls rolled on attack = 5.66 wounds taken
And here's a graph of that info;
Quote:
Of course those are just averages, and variations will occur naturally in a game. But, on average, he's taking 1 hit from any 3 skull attack and losing all his health to any attack above 9 skulls.
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  #324  
Old July 10th, 2019, 06:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Taskmaster (Final Editing)

I know this isn't my turf but I read along sometimes and thought this seemed fun so I ran the math. MrNobody's math is close, although it uses the average result rather than the average of the results, so I made a little Excel sheet and decided I'd share the results here (excuse the awful formatting).

The first column is the average number of wounds, the second column is the percent chance he'll take 5 or more wounds.

1 skull 0.1975308642 0

2 skulls 0.5925925926 0

3 skulls 1.119341564 0

4 skulls 1.719250114 0

5 skulls 2.355738455 3.901844231

6 skulls 3.009297363 14.30676218

7 skulls 3.670443191 29.9141391

8 skulls 4.334840556 47.25566902

9 skulls 5.000592728 63.15207144

10 skulls 5.666896858 75.86919338

If you're curious, the small differences mostly come from the fact that you can never take a negative number of wounds. So rolling 4 shields against 1 skull just really counts as 1 shield math-wise. When you get up to the higher numbers, the chance of over-blocking goes to almost 0, as you can see by how close Nobody's numbers get to mine.
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