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  #37  
Old January 17th, 2019, 10:05 AM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

First off, Thanks YK.

I agree on the "no other figures" moving on the bonus turn. That's probably a safe addition for future proofing.

I'm a bit rusty on my Master Mold/Sentinel play but I have two comments for that interaction you mentioned.
1st: The sentinels bonus move doesn't work for any Sentinel that has attacked this turn so you couldn't take a turn with a Sentinel and attack, trigger move of three other Sentinels and then take your bonus turn with the Sentinels and move the first one up since he attacked. Just checking if that happened.
2nd: Doesn't that already happen with Master Mold? Sentinel Directive allows you to attack with 3 Sentinels, and then MUTANT ALERT allows you to move up to 3 other Sentinels that haven't attacked if you roll attack dice.

Quote:
SENTINEL DIRECTIVE
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and instead of taking a turn with Master Mold, you may move up to 3 Sentinels you control or attack with up to 3 Sentinels you control. Sentinels must be within 8 clear sight spaces of Master Mold before moving or attacking with Sentinel Directive.
Quote:
MUTANT ALERT
After this Sentinel rolls attack dice against an opponent's Mutant figure, you may immediately move up to 3 other Sentinels you control that did not attack this turn up to 4 spaces each.
So if you decide to attack with 3 Sentinels..

Sentinel 1 attacks, Sentinel 2&3 move up.
Sentinel 2 Attacks, Sentinel 3 moves up (1 can't since he attacked earlier)
Sentinel 3 Attacks, no one can move up.

Sentinel 3 moved up twice and then attacked.


Is that not correct?

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  #38  
Old January 17th, 2019, 02:56 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

Correct on your first point, I did not move any figure that attacked, just those that did not attack. So 4 Sentinels in that army, first one moved up and attacked a mutant, 3 others move up four spaces, bonded with one of the 3 sentinels that just moved and moved a second time, then attacked, which allowed me to move up the 2 sentinels that still did not attack for a 2nd time during the turn.

I haven't used Master Mold in forever but yeah, that looks like how it works and I seem to recall playing it that way during a play test I once ran. Only thing that limits it is the 8 spaces limitation with MM, Trask does not have a range limit for his bonding. I wouldn't want to see Trask with a range limitation though, he's best just left in the SZ and ignored while he supports the team from afar with technology and pre-game preparation. MM is also a high point Event Hero, so some crazy swarming effect isn't too surprising. If you still want Trask to be a lower point hero, then if we can figure out wording to limit all that free movement I think it would help keep his 3 full bonded turns per OM reveal in check. You could try it out as attack or move bonding only instead of full bonding.
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  #39  
Old January 17th, 2019, 05:09 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

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Correct on your first point, I did not move any figure that attacked, just those that did not attack. So 4 Sentinels in that army, first one moved up and attacked a mutant, 3 others move up four spaces, bonded with one of the 3 sentinels that just moved and moved a second time, then attacked, which allowed me to move up the 2 sentinels that still did not attack for a 2nd time during the turn.

I haven't used Master Mold in forever but yeah, that looks like how it works and I seem to recall playing it that way during a play test I once ran. Only thing that limits it is the 8 spaces limitation with MM, Trask does not have a range limit for his bonding. I wouldn't want to see Trask with a range limitation though, he's best just left in the SZ and ignored while he supports the team from afar with technology and pre-game preparation. MM is also a high point Event Hero, so some crazy swarming effect isn't too surprising. If you still want Trask to be a lower point hero, then if we can figure out wording to limit all that free movement I think it would help keep his 3 full bonded turns per OM reveal in check. You could try it out as attack or move bonding only instead of full bonding.
This was going to be my fallback but technically that doesn't correct the issue of all the free movement since an attack would still produce the free movement.

So my thoughts (and please let me know if you don't think this helps) would be to just negate Mutant Alert on the bonded turn here. Still let the first Sentinel give them up to 3 free moves and then the second bonded Sentinel just gets to take his turn and isn't allowed to repeat the move up of the other 2 sentinels after he attacks.

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  #40  
Old January 17th, 2019, 05:40 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

On the move or attack only bonding, it would have an impact here since you are only using 2 total figures instead of 3 like on MM.

OM reveal on S1, attack w/o moving, move up S2, S3, & S4, attack w/S2 w/o moving, move up S3 & S4.

vs. full bonding

OM reveal on S1, move & attack, move up S2, S3, & S4, move and attack w/S2, move up S3 & S4.

Negating Mutant Alert on only the 2nd turn is also a possible solution to help reign it in a bit, but you still would get a chance to move S2 8 spaces before it attacks.

OM reveal on S1, move & attack, move S2, S3, & S4, move and attack with S2, end of turn.

It might not seem like much difference between all 3 but figure placement/board control, getting into a range of 4 for your follow up attack, & the initiative boost that stacks when having multiple S close to mutants all play a role in achieving a victory. I'm fine with you moving forward with whatever you feel is best here, including not changing anything if that is what you want to do, it will just impact the design's final price point. Personally I like the idea of Trask being at the 120 or 150 price point, if he starts getting much higher then it starts to impact how many allies he can bring with him.
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  #41  
Old January 17th, 2019, 06:32 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

I'm ok with 120 and 150 if he makes sentinels useful without over shadowing the MRD. So maybe having the bonded turn be an Attack or Move only would keep you from just going all out Sentinels and not really messing with the MRD much.

It's a line I'm trying to find between making the Sentinels useful without Master Mold and not killing off the desire to use the MRD. I'll let this rest and hopefully some others can chime in with their views here.

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  #42  
Old January 17th, 2019, 07:47 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

I still used the MDR, 4 attacks of 3 proved to be fairly effective and bonding with an attack of 5 make Trask a great add on. I mostly used them on OM1 though as I was trying to negate a mutant for the whole round rather then trying to negate a mutant for part of a round. The Sentinel initiative boost helps with that as it really increases the odds that you will be going first, and thus a successful negation roll will effect all 3 of your opponents OM reveals.
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  #43  
Old January 19th, 2019, 10:39 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

Fwiw, the Sentinels are a much larger part of his story than the MRD, so if he winds up a Sentinel-focused guy that lets you mix in the MRD, I think the design still works.

In terms of the Mutant Alert stuff... that really seems like something the Sentinels should already disallow. Haven't played Master Mold and the Sentinels in forever, but it seems weird that he can attack-bond with 3 of them and the same Sentinel could get moved 3 times with Mutant Alert.

But I guess we're stuck with it, and it's kinda hard to elegantly shut down.

One other thing that I wish I caught before is that Sentinel Initiative shuts down Sentinel Networking (because it requires you to take a turn with the Sentinel you actually revealed an OM on), which is kind of a bummer. Guess I'm guilty of thinking about that Sentinel Initiative power too much in a vacuum.

What about doing it like this?

Quote:
After taking a turn with an M.R.D. Trooper or Sentinel card you control, if there is at least one unrevealed Order Marker on this card, you may take a turn with one Sentinel you control that has not already moved or attacked this turn. You may not move or attack with any additional figures other than that Sentinel for the remainder of your turn.
Shuts down any extra attacks as well as moves, just in case of any future swarming powers on different Sentinels, but lets the OM flex in so that Sentinel Networking is still relevant in a Trask army.

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  #44  
Old January 20th, 2019, 02:43 AM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

Yeah, I just realized I wasn't playing that right in my tests. I was still placing the OM's on the 'safest' Sentinel and then taking a turn with whichever one was the most tactically viable at the time, then bonding. I think your wording looks pretty good though as it would allow for the Networking to still work while preventing you from bonding with a Sentinel you just moved up with Alert, then it prevents a double Alert. You really are the word smith around here Ronin.
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  #45  
Old January 22nd, 2019, 06:35 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

Not that we need to add more figures to the public PT thread, but are we ready to move this guy forward in some way then? Just curious if my initial PT duties are wrapped here or not.
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  #46  
Old January 22nd, 2019, 08:17 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
Not that we need to add more figures to the public PT thread, but are we ready to move this guy forward in some way then? Just curious if my initial PT duties are wrapped here or not.
Yeah I think you are solid here. At least that's my opinion. I'm also fine with Ronin's wording so I'll update the SP and call for the vote.

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  #47  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 02:23 AM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for INITIAL TESTNG)

Sounds good.

pre-yea
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  #48  
Old January 23rd, 2019, 10:59 PM
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Re: Book of Bolivar Trask (VOTE for PUBLIC TESTNG)

I propose we move this to Public Testing @ 120

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