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  #181  
Old November 14th, 2018, 05:59 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/14/18: Steel Ultimatus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Not that I know of. As far as is known, you can only start flying during a movement, not land until the end. But who knows; flying is too poorly defined.

Even still, like I said, powers like Swirling Vortex and Cyberclaw do not affect flying figures until they land, so I don't see why this power would either. Apparently flying figures do not actually occupy the space they fly over.
Huh. I wonder where I got that ruling on flying from. I remember being annoyed by it in the past, too, because I thought that a flying figure shouldn't be able to end its flight under an overhang with no penalty.

I didn't realize how openly defined Flying was. It's pretty surprising, given how frequent the power is in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Well, What if we added a definition to flying? What I mean is, since we are effectively the creators, we can add new definitions within reason, and some of the Sov/C3V custom already have done this. Certainly we should be cautious of doing so, but Flying seems to be a case where a newly defined definition would be immensely helpful. I propose, and this is probably not the best place to be doing this, that the term "pass over"/"passes over" be used to reference a figure that is flying. This term can used to effect figures that are flying as they move. We could now for example affect a flying figure during it's flying move by wording it like so; "any figure that becomes engaged, or passes over [insert name here]".
Quote:
GRAVITY FIELD
All opponents' figures that pass over, enter, or occupy a space within 3 clear sight spaces of Steel Ultimatus, may not ignore terrain elevations by use of any special power on any army card or glyph.
I think that this would be a very good change for the game's rules (and one that we should've seen sooner), but I'm almost certain that VC won't go for it. As far as I'm aware, they exclusively design new figures and glyphs, and try to remain within the original box of HeroScape as much as possible.

I do think that this proposed rewording fixes the problems with stopping flight midway through, though, albeit it is a little weird that they can still move through objects like the 6-hex glacier freely. At the very least, it achieves much of the same affect whilst avoiding "dropping" a figure on top of a tree.

This is the most "official" way that I can think of to fix the power:
Quote:
GRAVITY FIELD
All opponent's figures with the Flying special power that begin their turn within 3 clear sight spaces of Steel Ultimatus lose this power until the end of their turn. Figures that are currently flying may not move over a space within 3 clear spaces of Steel Ultimatus.
It sounds a little weird to flat-out bar entry into his aura when figures are flying, but we have a little bit of this with the Air Elemental calling out moving into a space versus moving over a space. We also have a precedence with a slightly informal reference to flying with Jotun's Throw, so simply saying "not currently flying" seems in line with what the original designers might have done to keep the power approachable by kids.

Heck, this could work even better if it wasn't too confusing:
Quote:
GRAVITY FIELD
All opponent's figures may not pass over spaces within 3 clear sight spaces of Steel Ultimatus.
As far as I'm aware, this would address pretty much all flying or leaping powers whilst avoiding teleportation and phantom walk. Unfortunately, I think that only saying "pass over" spaces relies too much on online rulings to sound like a classic card. None of the rulebooks ever really say anything like that.
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  #182  
Old November 14th, 2018, 06:05 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/14/18: Steel Ultimatus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I didn't realize how openly defined Flying was. It's pretty surprising, given how frequent the power is in the game.
Heh, yeah. Just re-read the text on the card and compare it to what we know of how flying works. It does not, for example, make a distinction between flying and walking, aside from a vague reference to "starts to fly."
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  #183  
Old November 16th, 2018, 09:43 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/16/18: More Masha]

Definitely. After sitting on it for a couple of days, I'm thinking that I'll just use the "All opponent's figures may not pass over spaces within 3 clear sight spaces of Steel Ultimatus" wording and include a ruling reminding players that flying figures don't move onto spaces but rather pass over them.

----------------------------------------------------------

I've mostly been testing Masha against melee-exclusive armies as of late to get a better feel for his attack nerf aura, but I completed a playtest against a mixed range/melee army today in order to test out how False Slumber felt on him. It felt pretty bad, so I'm going to revert the change making both powers mutually exclusive and tweak him in some other ways. Here's the new card that I'm thinking I'll go with:



Changes:
  • Removed the requirement to have no revealed Order Markers for his "spite" to activate.
  • Increased the minimum roll required to 10 (will adjust based off of further playtests).
  • Decreased defense to 2.
  • Increased life to 6.

This is much closer to where I was before, but the tweaks to his stats are meant to make him more killable by low-attack dice rolls. The increased life is to compensate a little bit (since he really only poses a balance problem against exclusively low-attack melee squad army compositions), and the roll was increased to compensate for the extra life (along with making it a little less effective for the other Samurai).

I'm very curious to hear whether people feel that these changes (combined with the revealed Order Marker requirement on Awakened Fear) address the potential balance issues with certain match-ups. I don't think that spiders would win against Samurai anyway, for example, but I don't want Masha to rob those players of any sense of fun.
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  #184  
Old November 17th, 2018, 11:48 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/16/18: More Masha]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post

I'm very curious to hear whether people feel that these changes (combined with the revealed Order Marker requirement on Awakened Fear) address the potential balance issues with certain match-ups. I don't think that spiders would win against Samurai anyway, for example, but I don't want Masha to rob those players of any sense of fun.
I didn’t super read through your playtest with the spiders, but I think a grave mistake was not using Estivara. Without her, they really won’t have enough attack power to do anything in a match, especially against anything with 5 Defense.

Without her, the spiders really don’t have a prayer in a matchup with Masha without some super lucky shenanagins.

I imagine there are other low attack melee armies (grubs/Torky comes to mind) but those builds might be a bit tougher.

Could try him vs Drudge on a half-swamp map. There’s a reasonable opponent who gets punished quite a bit by the demon samurai.

I’ll try to take time to read through more of your tests and feel him out.

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Last edited by flameslayer93; November 17th, 2018 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Beware the Spooder’s Poison
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  #185  
Old November 17th, 2018, 07:40 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/16/18: More Masha]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
I didn’t super read through your playtest with the spiders, but I think a grave mistake was not using Estivara. Without her, they really won’t have enough attack power to do anything in a match, especially against anything with 5 Defense.

Without her, the spiders really don’t have a prayer in a matchup with Masha without some super lucky shenanagins.

I imagine there are other low attack melee armies (grubs/Torky comes to mind) but those builds might be a bit tougher.
Estivara would definitely help them considerably, considering that she essentially negates Awakened Fear for the opponent or lets them actually stand a good chance of making the kill with height.

I should have specified that I was specifically trying to see one of the low-attack-melee squaddies only against Samurai, since that was the main argument brought up against the attack nerf aura. Just about every 2-attack melee squad in the game has some tools for getting past Masha (be it hero-killers like Sujoah, monsters like Grimnak, or cheerleaders like Estivara), but there was a substantial concern that without such tools, the match-up would not be fun for the opponent.

The Nagrubs, for example, have Tor-Kul-Na to trample any surrounding Samurai squaddies. MacDirks hardly count as a 2-attack melee squad, and Goblin Cutters subtract defense dice from the opponent. Typically, these kinds of armies would already have trouble against Samurai, so it's difficult to design Masha around them instead of other opponents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Could try him vs Drudge on a half-swamp map. There’s a reasonable opponent who gets punished quite a bit by the demon samurai.

I’ll try to take time to read through more of your tests and feel him out.
I like this match-up idea. The Drudges aren't great, but on a swamp map they might actually pose a decent threat against the Samurai, especially with the ability to tunnel past any guards. The short range and nature of needing to be in Swamp Water also make it much more likely that Awakened Fear will be effective. Thanks for this idea; I definitely wouldn't think of trying out Marro Drudges in a playtest normally.

And thanks! He's been far from overpowered in my games (especially in larger ones, when there are more Samurai to juggle), so I'm mostly just trying to think of a way to address the concern with his attack aura in certain match-ups without skewing his balance in every other match-up.
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  #186  
Old November 20th, 2018, 06:07 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

IRON WOLVES
Trickiest Team


A Divided Alliance - Iron Wolves (1/2)



The figures used are various Iron Wolf miniatures from the game Battleball. Each box comes with enough figures to make two squads. The Iron Wolves are single-spaced figures.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!

CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!

DESIGN NOTES:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • REINFORCE THE LINE:
    As athletes, the following figures may aid the Iron Wolves after being wounded to trigger REINFORCE THE LINE:
  • IRON JUDGE : FIELD PASS
    As Vydar athletes, the Iron Wolves may move with the Iron Judge's FIELD PASS movement power.

  • STALWART : PULL TO SAFETY
    As friendly athlete figures, the Iron Wolves may ignore wounds after a successful roll for Stalwart's PULL TO SAFETY.

  • LINEBACKER : ATHLETE ENHANCEMENT
    As Athletes, the Iron Wolves may benefit from a Linebacker's ATHLETE ENHANCEMENT attack and defense bonus.

  • AGENT SKAHEN : COVER FIRE
    Being Vydar Tricky figures, the Iron Wolves benefit from Agent Skahen's COVER FIRE power.
Synergy Benefits OfferedAs always, any comments or feedback are appreciated.

Last edited by Astroking112; May 31st, 2020 at 11:12 PM. Reason: Updated links.
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  #187  
Old November 20th, 2018, 07:34 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

I've been eagerly awaiting more of the athlete team figures. Love these guys!
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  #188  
Old November 20th, 2018, 07:47 PM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I've been eagerly awaiting more of the athlete team figures. Love these guys!
Thanks for the support! I've got a lot of the designs mostly settled at this point, so it's nice when I can find the time to sit down and make a card for another one of them. I'd definitely like to get the rest posted before too much longer!
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  #189  
Old November 21st, 2018, 12:50 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

Returning to Masha for a bit, I'm not sure how great of a name Awakened Fear is. I will admit that I haven't been able to keep up with all of the discussion regarding him, so if there are plenty of SoV'ers who think it's a fine name, I say go with it.

I don't actually have any better suggestions for a name though.

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  #190  
Old November 21st, 2018, 01:40 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Returning to Masha for a bit, I'm not sure how great of a name Awakened Fear is. I will admit that I haven't been able to keep up with all of the discussion regarding him, so if there are plenty of SoV'ers who think it's a fine name, I say go with it.

I don't actually have any better suggestions for a name though.
Most of the discussion has been around the name of Flaming Retribution and making it more aggressive, rather than Awakened Fear. Some past names that I've gone over include Aura of Terror, Curse of the Oni, and Aspect of Terror, with the last one being my personal favorite.

I settled on the simpler Awakened Fear over those to keep the focus on the OM reveal while still alluding to the "terror" like Akumaken's ability. I'm certainly open to changing the name if people aren't happy with the current one, though.
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  #191  
Old November 21st, 2018, 03:48 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

Hmmm.... I'm feeling as though 'Awakened Terror' might give a little more punch while still keeping simple and giving a focus to the OM reveal.
I'm really loving how Masha's shaping up - that's an absolutely awesome figure you have there! He and M.A.R.S. are the two I'd most love to see in official canon (though I'll likely use them either way! ).
Interested to see how these athletes are shaping up. You've posted them piecemeal, so I don't really have a clear picture of them right now - I'll need to take a look back. I have to admit, that stat-line on the Iron Wolves doesn't feel terribly... 'athletic' to me.


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  #192  
Old November 21st, 2018, 11:27 AM
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Re: Astro's Custom Units [Update 11/20/18: Iron Wolves]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Hmmm.... I'm feeling as though 'Awakened Terror' might give a little more punch while still keeping simple and giving a focus to the OM reveal.
I'm really loving how Masha's shaping up - that's an absolutely awesome figure you have there! He and M.A.R.S. are the two I'd most love to see in official canon (though I'll likely use them either way! ).
I like how Awakened Terror still pays homage to Akumaken, but I thought that using Fear sounded more natural when I had settled on it. I can't quite put my finger on why, though.

And thanks for the praise! I'm definitely going to try and get both him and M.A.R.S. through SoV once I can finish their playtesting. It's really nice to know that you like them enough to use them even without a VC-approval!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Interested to see how these athletes are shaping up. You've posted them piecemeal, so I don't really have a clear picture of them right now - I'll need to take a look back. I have to admit, that stat-line on the Iron Wolves doesn't feel terribly... 'athletic' to me.
Yeah, I've found that posting the athletes one at a time when I have the chance to make a quick card fits best into my schedule. This has unfortunately led to them being a little scattered throughout the thread unless you use the OP links. I'm thinking of making a final "faction" post of links to each unit once I post the last Black Hart and Iron Wolf, though, to combat this a little bit.

That's a good point on the Iron Wolves. I have absolutely no interest in Football in real life, but I can see how the stats might seem unathletic. I was thinking that they would be a slower team that maintains the formation no matter what happens, which is reflected in the higher defense and team-oriented powers. Do you feel like the powerset mitigates the stats at least little bit? My intent was for it to be somewhat like the MacDirks, with unusually low stats but powers that make up for it.
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