Any Interest in a Turn-Based RPG Style CCG?

[Nikmis]

Sorry with no follow up replies yet.

Just looking into a card creatation/template system.
"Magic Set Editor 2" http://magicseteditor.sourceforge.net/
Even though I did rediscover the program a second time, it was posted here first.
bmaczero's - Magic Set Editor - Easy, Realistic Army Card Creator http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=25594

I'm trying to work out the details of my suggestions for you, and I have a template I was working out of excel on, but in an effort to make it more simple I may have made it more complex

Here is a example of the unfinished rough draft. Surprisingly they dont look half bad for being done in excel.

[Nikmis]

I'm thinking that you may want to reverse your speed statistic to make it so lower numbers are faster. It would make it easer to implement things such as casting times, slow spells or effects, etc... (speed = action = ACT in my samples above).

A spell/skill with a casting time of 3 would allow for a speed 5 hero to begin casting on turn 5 then the spell would execute on turn 8. You could have interrupt rules as a possiblity as well.

A pyhsical skill such as "shield bash" could stun characters and add 2 to the targets speed on the targets next turn. The same for slow spells.

Haste spells could lower the speed rating by 3, if haste would reduce the characters action to less than the current turn they would act next in battle.

just some idle thoughts.

-nik

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Nikmis

I'm thinking that you may want to reverse your speed statistic to make it so lower numbers are faster. It would make it easer to implement things such as casting times, slow spells or effects, etc... (speed = action = ACT in my samples above).

A spell/skill with a casting time of 3 would allow for a speed 5 hero to begin casting on turn 5 then the spell would execute on turn 8. You could have interrupt rules as a possiblity as well.

A pyhsical skill such as "shield bash" could stun characters and add 2 to the targets speed on the targets next turn. The same for slow spells.

Haste spells could lower the speed rating by 3, if haste would reduce the characters action to less than the current turn they would act next in battle.

just some idle thoughts.

-nik

I don't think I want to incorporate casting times. My thoughts are that casting time is already somewhat accounted for by the fact that the spell card needs to be in your hand to cast it. Also it creates more to keep track of (i.e., now you have to track turns that the spell has been idle and remember on which turn it casts).

I think I also want to keep the Speed stat as higher = better, since that's the way all of the other stats work and there will be less confusion on items and equipment that boost Speed. Haste / Slow type spells will be a challenge - actually, any spell with a limited effect time will be a challenge. I've considered not implementing them at all - just include Spells / Abilities that permanently increase a stat, or cause a permanent status effect that can be removed by curative items. That way, again, there's less to keep track of. That's been the biggest peeve of people I've played early versions of the game with - too much to keep track of.

Still, thanks for the ideas!

[Nikmis]

Ignore the poor quality of my pencil sketch


Well here goes, feel free to use all or none or anywhere in between.

I thought that since the hero cards will not be shuffled into the deck it allows you to use both sides of the card for information.

In an effort to simplify game play you can divide the card up into a side that contains character information and a side that contains battle ready information.

Battle ready stat card. Martial atk/def, Arcane atk/def, Ranged atk/def, Spiritual atk/def. (To narrow it down further you could combine Martial and Ranged, and Arcane and Spiritual) Hit Points, Magic Points, Speed, Element Level, and Special Ability. Element type signified by the color of the card, Name and class type text at the top, and a larger action pose artwork for the hero.

Reverse of Card. Character name, close up portrait, and short bio. followed by an area with detailed stats such as Strength, Agility, Intelligence, Wisdom and Equipable armor and weapon types.

What we gain:
Simplification basing attack and defense rolls on fewer stats.

Equipment allowed usage based on stats requirements, so a long sword might have a strength requirement of 5 and increase Martial Atk by +1 where as a two handed sword might have a strength requirement of 8 and increase Atk by +2. Wands could be based off of magic/intellect, and guns/bows off of Agility.

What we loose:
Equipment no longer really affects stats such as strength, magic, agility. It would need to primarily affect Atk/Def whether it be Martial, Magical etc.. It can retain the ability to add additional special effects.

Turn order tie breaker by agility, go directly from speed to die roll.

An example based on your first page battle between Garic and Kistri.

I prefer at least a 3 stat atk/def setup such as Martial, Ranged, Arcane (or Physical, Magical, Spiritual) since it allows for more of a paper/rock/scissor effect. For this example we'll just use Martial and Magical.

Kistri
Dress/Staff
HP:6 MP:9 Spd:7 Blue:4
Martial:4/4 Magical:7/6
Ability: When Kistri deals damage or restores HP to another Hero, she may recover 1 MP.

Garic
Cloak/Guns
HP:8 MP:6 Spd:8 Black:2
Martial:6/6 Magical:5/4
Ability: When Garic deals damage to an opposing Hero, Garic may recover 1 HP.

Originally Posted by killercactus

An example of a turn:
OK. Let's assume these two heroes (Kistri and Garic) were on opposing teams, fighting each other. Also, for simplicity, they're both totally unequipped.

I'm going to modify the original text to fit with the new card setup.

In gameplay, the first thing to be determined is order of turns, which is based on Speed. The higher the Speed, the earlier in the round that Hero acts. It's based on all Heroes in play, which means that one player could have 2-3 turns in a row. Ties are broken by a D20 roll. The turn order will remain the same for the entire game unless a spell/item/ability affects the Speed stat of a Hero.

In this example, Garic's Speed is higher, so his turn would be before Kistri's in the Round. A Round simply consists of each hero that's still alive taking a turn. If a hero is dead, his/her turn is skipped that round. Any Hero revived (that is, brought back to life) during a Round gets a turn at the end of the Round, but falls back into their normal place in the next Round.

On Garic's turn, he may use a Physical Attack, or play a Spell/Item/Special card from his hand. Let's assume he uses a Physical Attack on Kistri. Both players immediately roll a D20 and D6. The attacker's D20 roll is to determine a Critical Hit, which adds 2 to Damage roll that turn. The roll + the Hero's Martial Atk must be > 20 for a Critical Hit. The Defender's D20 roll determines if the attack is dodged (i.e., does no damage). The roll + Martial Defense again must be > 20. The D6 rolls just add to Attack and Defense respectively for that turn, to introduce a bit more luck. Here are the roll outcomes:

Garic: 14, 2
Kistri: 9, 3

Garic's D20 roll of 14 + his 7 Martial Atk gives him a Critical Hit, while Kistri's D20 roll is too low to dodge it. The damage dealt is Garic's Martial Atk of 7 + 2 (Critical) + 2 (D6 roll) - Kistri's Martial Defense of 4 - 3 (D6 roll) = 4 damage. Kistri would lose 4 HP and have 2 left. Per Garic's Ability, if he had less than full HP, he could recover one HP.

Next, Kistri would take a turn. She has the same options as Garic had, but she'll choose to play a Spell from her hand. She plays Natural Spring, which is a Level 3 Blue/Green spell(which she can play thanks to her Blue innate color and level of 4. Someone with the innate color of Green and level of at least 3 could also play it):

Natural Spring
Blue/Green 3
Healing Power: 3
Cleanse any status effects from target hero.

The Healing Power: 3 lets the player know that this spell is meant to recover HP (as opposed to Damage Power, which is meant to decrease HP, or Manipulation Power which affects status), and the base amount of recovery is 3. To determine the true amount of HP recovered, the Caster's Magical Atk is added, and the targets Magical Def is subtracted. So, Kistri would recover 3 + 7 - 6 = 4 HP (if you were calculating a Damage spell, it would work the same way, except the target could lose HP). If there were any affects on her status (positive or negative), they would be removed and her stats / status would return to normal. Per her ability, she would also recover 1 MP. No extra dice rolls are used with Magic or Items, unless specified in the text.

The outcome is pretty similar, Garic dealt 1 more damage. I'll post again with some follow up concerning equipment, spells/abilities, elemental scores and strengths/weaknesses.

[killercactus]

Thanks again for all the ideas, Nik! It's fun just to discuss this stuff. Please don't be discouraged by anything below...

For some reason, I envisioned the Hero cards as landscape based instead of portrait. I'm not sure why - maybe I feel like I can fit more information onto one side that way. Do you have an idea for a landscape-based card? I had one originally, but I'd have to find it again.

Also, I considered 2-sided Hero cards for a long time, and am still considering it. The only thing holding me back from doing it is that I have plans down the road for a doppelganger Hero and considered giving him an ability allowing the player to swap his Hero card with one from their hand. I'm not sure if I like that ability though, and may change it.

I like the idea of Martial and Magical attack and defense - using one name for them (instead of two separate stats called Strength and Defense, just using a X/X notation like in Magic), though I think I prefer Physical and Elemental as the names, just because I really want the game to revolve around Elements. Though, I will strongly consider replacing STR and DEF with Physical X/X, and ditto for Elemental X/X.

I think I still want to keep Agility in there though. The main reason is that I don't necessarily want the Heroes with high Physical Attack stats being the most likely to get a Critical Hit, and the Heroes with high Physical Defense being the most likely to dodge attacks. It seems like overkill, and I want to leave room for Heroes like Isamu, who don't really shrug off attacks, just dodge them.

Lastly, I'm against basing weapon usage off of stats. Again, it's because I don't necessarily want the highest attackers using the strongest weapons all the time. It also will narrow the focus of players when selecting weapons (i.e., why would someone with high strength choose a spear over a sword, if the sword is stronger?). I like the Class system (or some variation of it) to determine equippable weapons and armor. It does pigeon-hole Heroes into some things, but I kind of like it that way. I was a big fan of Final Fantasy IV because Heroes were what they were supposed to be - Yang couldn't cast Spells, and Rydia couldn't attack worth crap, and there wasn't really a way to change that. In Final Fantasy VI, Cyan was a great attacker, but you could make sure he was awesome at Magic too, which was kinda weird to me (still loved the game though).

[Nikmis]

What names for the game are you considering?

heh, this just popped into my head and I got a chuckle out of it.

M.E.R.C.S
Martial Elemental RPG Card System

Instead of heroes you could call them Mercenaries, or Mercs for short.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Nikmis

What names for the game are you considering?

heh, this just popped into my head and I got a chuckle out of it.

M.E.R.C.S
Martial Elemental RPG Card System

Instead of heroes you could call them Mercenaries, or Mercs for short.

I've only thought about it a little. It'll be something to do with Heroes empowered by the planet/gods with Elements. I have no idea yet what to call it.

[killercactus]

Items have been giving me some problems lately. Any item I think of has some sort of Elemental affiliation (mostly because I made Science an Element, which encompasses all things artificial or man-made), but I don't think I want to outright restrict the playing of Items to those heroes who possess the Elemental knowledge. Plus, it's really difficult to come up with Healing items for Red or even Black.

Maybe those two colors are just out of luck when it comes to healing? Blacks want to destroy things and are fascinated with death, so they will have some "raise the dead" type powers that should be enough (i.e., they don't heal themselves - they just keep coming back as zombies when you kill them), and Red's just want to relentlessly attack with all of their passion and fury, so they don't need curative items. The other 6 elements would probably have these:

Blue - Various liquids (Healing Waters, springs, potions, etc) will be nearly exclusively curative or linked to slowing the enemy, as Blue's are patient and want to restore things
Gray - Cool breezes, though these are probably only for Level 3 and up, since Level 1 and 2 innates can't control the Wind - they're just stuck with emotional levels of discord and hyperactivity. Maybe some kind of adrenaline rush healing
Brown - Soils (the ol' rub some dirt on it) for 3's and up, but just protective items for the lowers - Browns want to keep things the way they are.
White - Various blessings for Level 3's and above, or some self-sacrificial acts for the lowers since Whites are so brave and selfless. They'll also have resurrection items and holy water (that's a blue/white)
Green - Various herbs and plants should provide for a lot of healing opportunities. They'll also be the main source for removing status effects (along with blessings / holy water) as Greens like to keep things clean and natural
Yellow - Various pills, capsules and mixtures will do all sorts of things, but not specialize anywhere, as Yellows want everything at the same time

[Nikmis]

Ok here is a rough draft (done in ms paint of all things) If you print it at 300 dpi it comes out ccg size and does not look too bad. My Very Generic Hero!



I think a landscape layout will work well, it leaves a good amount of room for both information and artwork.

Also I'm thinking that we can put the equipment cards portrait style behind the hero card sticking out from the edges showing the attack/defense bonuses and any added special abilities granted by arms/armor.

Sir Rothwick, 2E Brown, Knight. Final versions the card border would be brown but it messed with the text and icons etc...

Attack information is on the left. (sorry I just used 5 as a generic average)
5 Martial Attack with a prefered weapon type sword.
5 Elemental Attack no prefered weapons.

Defense information is on the right
5 Martial Defense with perfered armors of shields and plate.
5 Elemental Defense with no perfered armors.

AG=Agility, Sp=Speed, HP=Hit points, MP=Mana Points, stradle the special abitly text.

[KCU Master 2007]

Possibly for red and black have some sort of life stealing items. These couldn't be as good at healing as just healing items but it would be a good mechanic for these more ferocious heros.

As far as what to call them or how to make them work, I'm not too sure though.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by KCU Master 2007

Possibly for red and black have some sort of life stealing items. These couldn't be as good at healing as just healing items but it would be a good mechanic for these more ferocious heros.

I love that idea for Black, though I'm not sure how to turn it into an Item. Would make for some great Level 1-2 Black spells though, or some accessories (Vampire Fangs or something along those lines...). Would probably also work for Yellow (though I have enough Yellow stuff).

I seriously think that Red just isn't going to be able to heal. Red innates don't care about that anyway - they're too passionate about what they're doing.

[KCU Master 2007]

Maybe just make it an effect of an item rather than a spell. Some items they can use have a life leech ability.