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  #25  
Old September 16th, 2007, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Alright guys, I had a few questions about tghis. i asked the Guru if he wanted me to ask these in private and he said post them here. i am not trying to be a stick in the mud but I did have a couple of concerns.

First, with five glyphs on the board at once does this kind of make it seem like this is going to turn to SquadScape real quick. Just by default you have to have alot of figs.

Second, With a thirty minute game it behooves people with the glyphs to slow down even more than in the hour games. I hate this tactic but I have seen it done. Is there a way to use like a one minute time clock or something that you at least have to be moved by...not neccesarrily finished with attacks but at least somewhat committed. A time clock is not the greatest answer I know, but how do we prevent it??

And last but not least, these are meant to be fast games but I think I have an idea of what may be coming. I could be wrong. I would think a mass of figs that can not only take glyphs but also take them back after your attack would be one of the best armies. You would be hard pressed to kill off Reavers quick enough in a half hour with the rate they slow down a game. Also everytime you kill one with that high defense another one moves in. Will this become the Reaver Tourney????

I understand the intention is to see new armies and such and speed up play but I am worried this may produce the same old armies and slow it down even more I apologize for being the first voice on this....in all accounts it does not matter, I am coming to have fun no matter what. I am not trying to be mean in the least about this. Just some thoughts I had on the subject.

As far as fixing it??? I do not know, maybe just one glyph in the center or something....that would see some big heroes come into play. Then you would have to change the point values though. i look forward to seeing other thoughts on this as well. I need to hear soem other view points on this because I may be wrong. See you guys soon
no worries sky. All comments are welcome, constructive or otherwise. I'll comment more specifically when I get home, but know that this is a work in progress. We wanted to mix things up for national heroscape day as opposed to just more of the same, so if it looks broken for some reason, lets discuss, and we'll work it all out.
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  #26  
Old September 16th, 2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Alright guys, I had a few questions about tghis. i asked the Guru if he wanted me to ask these in private and he said post them here. i am not trying to be a stick in the mud but I did have a couple of concerns.
It's cool man! We knew this was coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
First, with five glyphs on the board at once does this kind of make it seem like this is going to turn to SquadScape real quick. Just by default you have to have alot of figs.
A fair point. We could lower it 3. But also see my comment below on the map setups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Second, With a thirty minute game it behooves people with the glyphs to slow down even more than in the hour games. I hate this tactic but I have seen it done. Is there a way to use like a one minute time clock or something that you at least have to be moved by...not neccesarrily finished with attacks but at least somewhat committed. A time clock is not the greatest answer I know, but how do we prevent it??
We talked about stalling from the beginning. There will be a general courtesy rule about turn-taking, with stricter guidelines if necessary. The NE group has shown exemplary behavior in the past tourneys, and I think will show it again here as well. I think everyone up here can agree we've had casual and courteous fun so far. Another option would be to have a round tracker at each map, though that makes it harder to control the length of each battle. And don't forget respecting time can earn you bonus victory points with sportsmanship awards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
And last but not least, these are meant to be fast games but I think I have an idea of what may be coming. I could be wrong. I would think a mass of figs that can not only take glyphs but also take them back after your attack would be one of the best armies. You would be hard pressed to kill off Reavers quick enough in a half hour with the rate they slow down a game. Also everytime you kill one with that high defense another one moves in. Will this become the Reaver Tourney????
When I told the Guru about this the first thing he said was, "Dude, I'm thinking Reavers." While Reavers are capable of trying to take Glyphs, there are certainly units faster than them, and Reavers are in a poor position to take Glyphs away from the enemy. Also, because armies aren't required to "kill 'em all" the need to even attack enemy Reavers drops. The maps for this tournament will also restrict this kind of play as well. I don't want to get into the maps too much yet, but they will encourage a certain level of diversity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
I apologize for being the first voice on this....in all accounts it does not matter, I am coming to have fun no matter what. I am not trying to be mean in the least about this. Just some thoughts I had on the subject.
No worries. This is a different setup, and while everyone comes for fun, they want a fair chance at winning too!
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  #27  
Old September 16th, 2007, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Alright guys, I had a few questions about tghis. i asked the Guru if he wanted me to ask these in private and he said post them here. i am not trying to be a stick in the mud but I did have a couple of concerns.
Yeah, I agree with Sky's concerns. It seriously took about 20 minutes for me to kill 4 reavers, and I think that this style of scoring will greatly encourage a ton of them. I shutter to see the Reaver x10 Raelin army I'm sure that someone is already planning to bring. (Do I have that many? Nope, crap)

Don't get me wrong. I'm all about mixing it up and trying something new. I just hate fighting Deathreavers, and I can only imagine they will be all over the place. Plus, they do majorly slow down an already shortened game.

On the other hand, I guess this would encourage some not often used figures to deal with the rats. Plus, army composition points would discourage large numbers of rats, because there is no way I'm giving anyone my point who brings a set

...

Ok, after some more thought, maybe it isn't the play style that is giving me issues. Maybe it is the scoring. What if we awarded points something like:
Every 100 points worth of figures you wound/destroy : 1 point
Each glyph held : 1 point

If you wipe your opponent out in the 30 minutes, you will earn the 10 points. Otherwise, you are going to just earn a fraction of that. With a 30 minute time limit, I'm guessing most games are going to end before one person is eliminated.

I guess that taking a holding Glyphs is more of a reason to play slowly and be annoying rather than encouraging players to duke it out. By weighing the points for destroying figures and holding glyphs a little more evenly, I think it would encourage fights over the glyphs, instead of cheesy "just hold the glyph and delay" tactics. This way, bringing a ton of rats and grabbing glyphs all game is going to get you a maximum of 5 points (if they don't kill anything) which means that people who are bringing armies and trying to defeat their opponents as well as take glyphs will probably outscore them every game.

I got nuthin...
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  #28  
Old September 16th, 2007, 04:52 PM
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Those Reavers take forever to kill! Bobbo is correct, and everytime you luckily clean one up another one takes its spot. I do know the reavers do not move fast at first, but once the scatter gets going they tend to move a bit quicker.

He is also correct on the point that there is not alot of momentum to duke it out. Once you take a glyph you stay there and do not move again. I do believe you that your folks are not stalling but if I have a glyph and you have range on me...I am going to stay on that glyph as long as I can. If you get a shot everytime I pass then that means I need to do something since I have no incentive to come get you. Mind you if you kill my Reaver I take the glyph again anyways with another Reaver instantly. Therefore you will see people shuffling backfield opponents just to try and waste another 30 seconds....In a thirty minute game that is alot of time.

I think as it stands right now you are going to see two armies, reavers with Defense bumps and Anti reavers...not playing those two armies is a huge gamble. Me I don't care...I am coming to play some Scape, but playing against fields of reavers all day may get a bit tedious. I just think that in thirty minutes you are not gonna touch a army of fourty reavers and Raelin...you can't. And if the Reavers take a glyph...its pretty much theirs in those kinds of numbers.

So this leaves me with two questions....

1. Can Reavers be removed from this scenario without getting folks peed off?

2. If not can I borrow seven sets of Reavers from someone please :P
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  #29  
Old September 16th, 2007, 04:56 PM
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Well, not to hijack the thread further, but another idea I've had would be a team tourney. 2 v 2, and maybe fewer points per person. You'd obviously have to play with small boards to keep things moving. And people would need to commit so you'd know way ahead of time if you had enough people - and so teammates could strategize. Rounds might be longer in time and fewer in number (3 instead of 4?). Could be a lot of fun.

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  #30  
Old September 16th, 2007, 05:32 PM
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While I can understand the fears of seeing a million Reavers, 24-hex starting zones will limit that level of silliness. And again, the maps won't necessarily support that kind of play. When the maps are tested, rest assured we'll try out Reavers to see what happens.
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  #31  
Old September 16th, 2007, 07:24 PM
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Also... with the idea that "EVERYONE" is going to bring reavers, don't you think some people are going to start planning to counter that?

Not that this is going to happen, but lets say we decide to keep it as-is. I'll bet you'll see more gladiatrons than reavers on the final boards. lol


Just throwing that out there.
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  #32  
Old September 16th, 2007, 07:39 PM
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My main concern is that Ninja not be on the map-building committee. I'm just concerned about maps filled with fox holes and glyphs at the bottom of each........

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  #33  
Old September 16th, 2007, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theGuru
Also... with the idea that "EVERYONE" is going to bring reavers, don't you think some people are going to start planning to counter that?

Not that this is going to happen, but lets say we decide to keep it as-is. I'll bet you'll see more gladiatrons than reavers on the final boards. lol


Just throwing that out there.

You are way correct on this, Like I said, it will be two armies there. Reavers and Anti Reavers. The problem with the Reavs is not that they are a huge menace as much as they can decently hold glyphs and they take F....o....r.....e....v....e.....r..... to move. With thirty minutes you may be lucky to see six rounds of play with these critters on the board. I can almost guaruntee that not one game will get finished if Reavers are on board. It is a great stall tactic without actually having to stall.
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  #34  
Old September 16th, 2007, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
My main concern is that Ninja not be on the map-building committee. I'm just concerned about maps filled with fox holes and glyphs at the bottom of each........
Yes, in a game where height is key, he does seem to love putting his guys in ditches.
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  #35  
Old September 16th, 2007, 10:16 PM
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Not sure I can make it, but I'm going to try.

Regarding the concerns that have been brought up, I definitely see the issues. One thought, since it is only a 30 minute game, perhaps we should go with only 350 point (or even fewer) armys?

On the scoring side of things, what about points for holding the glyphs at the end of each round? It may discourage stalling... if you can get another round in, you can get more points.

As much as I loved playing the reavers at the beatdown, I promise not to bring any to this if I can make it!

Egg

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  #36  
Old September 16th, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Bistro and I have been talking. We're going to huddle on some thoughts following the comments so far. While we want the RI tournament to be a bit different in celebration of national Heroscape day, but we also want people to enjoy themselves and not be frustrated!

Let us huddle tonight. One of us will update tomorrow.

However, I would like to reveal the first prize! The store we are hosting it at (disposable Heroes) has donated a $25 gift certificate.

And they will have scape available as well as MANY other popular games and comics
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