The Book of Aaron Cash

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I'm quoting what @dok had said after a game of Aaron Cash+Bizzaro+other crazy stuff.

But isn't that result more of a function of Bizarro's Villainous Duty being an issue that has already been deemed a reevaluation priority?

If the main pod players like Bizzaro and Jocasta get addressed to keep them from being so nasty and not fun to play against, then wouldn't that lesson the impact of figures like Aaron Cash in that build?

From what I've seen, the auto-wounding defensive power figures that are tough to kill and the Master Manipulator chain are some issues that may make other figures look tougher than they otherwise would when not in those builds.

[Yodaking]

I agree with Hahma. Fix Bizzaro & Jocasta first, then see how you feel about all the other figures.

[IAmBatman]

Thirded.

[dok]

I am totally fine with waiting until the other defensive figures have been addressed. That's prudent.

That said, putting the Beat Cop power in hero form offers some significant advantages in pod armies. It's a lot easier to efficiently move around a wound-soak hero than it is to move around a wound-soak squad. He's also less vulnerable to area attacks than the beat cops are.

If he were 3 life and took every wound, I could still see taking him over a squad of cops at 65 points. It would be a close thing, as the "take every wound" is a significant nerf, but if I have something like Martian Manhunter it's still a pretty easy call.

If he was able to hold his own against Killer Croc, that would seem to me to be an argument to raise his stats, as opposed to an argument to make him more effective as a passive defensive figure.

[TrollBrute]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Aaron Cash

Army Test
Map: Dark Dimension
Units: Aaron Cash (65), GL:John Stewart (340), Valkyrie (350), Zombie (120), Vertigo (90), Green Construct:Shield (20) (985) VS Scarlet Spider (Kaine Parker, 245), Hit-Girl (135), Batgirl (Cassandra Cain, 130), Oracle (110), Robin (Damian Wayne, 80), Nite Owl (130), Huntress (170) (1000)
Unit Summary:
Damage: none.
PRotect and Serve: 3 times used, took 5 wounds.
Action Reflexes: 0 times used, 0 extra spaces moved.

Spoiler Alert!

Army One had the advantage going into this game, but it was still an easy win. I probably could have played the Vigilantes better, and winning Initiative at some point would have helped them, but they just felt overmatched.

Spider went first, and managed a wound on Stewart (that Cash took). After an Initiative win, Stewart hit Spider for 5 wounds, and Zombie finished him off. Huntress and Robin managed to actually do some good damage, but neither could last long against Stewart/Zombie. Cash took two more of Stewart's attacks, both were to save two wounds and keep the glyph on his card.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): R4T2: Green Lantern unwounded with 2/3 markers, Vertigo with 1/4 wounds, Valkyrie unwounded, and Construct:Shield not destroyed.

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Aaron Cash (65), Martian Manhunter (I, 300), Red Skull (220), Angel (90) (675) VS Vulcan (450), Yukio (120), Armor (100) (670)
Unit Summary:
Damage: none.
PRotect and Serve: 1 times used, took 2 wounds.
Action Reflexes: 0 times used, 0 extra spaces moved.

Spoiler Alert!

Cash only saw minimal use, as Vulcan went right after him, but he gave Red Skull enough time with the Cube to get the advantage on Vulcan. He did use his power once to save Skull from two Cosmic Energy Matter wounds.

Vulcan did manage to kill Skull as well, but a couple of bad Defense rolls left him one attack away from death, and that eventually came from Martian Manhunter.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): R4T2: Martian Manhunter with 1/6 wounds, Angel with 3/4.

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Aaron Cash (65), Martian Manhunter (I, 300), Red Skull (220), Angel (90) (675) VS Vulcan (450), Yukio (120), Armor (100) (670)
Unit Summary:
Damage: none.
PRotect and Serve: 1 times used, took 2 wounds.
Action Reflexes: 0 times used, 0 extra spaces moved.

Spoiler Alert!

Cash was quickly one-shotted, but that gave Skull the chance to move Vulcan adjacent and lower with the Cube. 4 skulls to 0 shields let him activate Manhunter, who finished off Vulcan.

The Sidekicks knocked out Skull with some great rolls, but they really had no chance.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): R3T6: Martian Manhunter with 1/6 wounds and Angel unwounded.

Army Test
Map: Sacred Shrine
Units: Aaron Cash (65), Martian Manhunter (I, 300), Red Skull (220), Angel (90) (675) VS Ms Marvel (350), Spawn (320) (670)
Unit Summary:
Damage: none.
PRotect and Serve: 0 times used, took 0 wounds.
Action Reflexes: 0 times used, 0 extra spaces moved.

Spoiler Alert!

Yeah, I think the result mostly speaks for itself. The few wounds that Cash took were moved off by the Cube. Skull and Manhunter just obliterated Spawn quickly, thanks to his poor rolls. Ms Marvel stood no chance against the full strength of the opponent's army.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): R3T1: Cash with 2/4 wounds, all others unwounded.

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I was very hopeful that the single change would be enough to fix Cash, but we’re not there yet. There were plenty of rolls that went well for Cash’s team, but not enough for 4 wins. Cash is just very good, and pairing him with other defensive figures, particularly Valkyrie, creates a nasty pod. Unless you have reliable auto-wounds or figure movement, it’s crazy tough to beat. Dropping his Life to 3 would be the next change I’d like to see. I would not be against also raising his cost some, or adding more restrictions.

[quozl]

We did debate dropping his Life to 3 when the design started. Let's go for it.

[Viegon]

Yeah, those tests are pretty nasty looking. I definitely support lowering his life to 3, and it might not be a bad idea to go ahead and bump his cost 10-20 points too.

[IAmBatman]

Life 3 seems like the logical next step.

[dok]

I don't want to oversell those results: that army might be the nastiest thing I've come up with in C3G-land, so it winning even with nerfed Cash is no shocker. That said, I do agree that the one change was not going to be enough.

I want to note again that pumping up his usefulness when taking turns is not going to affect his metagame power at all. I note this since some of his 1v1 tests definitely get swung by a change to his life total. And as I said a while back:

Originally Posted by dok

If he was able to hold his own against Killer Croc, that would seem to me to be an argument to raise his stats, as opposed to an argument to make him more effective as a passive defensive figure.

[Hahma]

PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control would receive one or more wounds, you must instead place those Wound Markers on this card.

Wouldn't changing it to must place all the wounds on his card help things out? Sure he could take a single wound here and there, but he could also take 2, 3, or 4 as well.

[Karat]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Wouldn't changing it to must place all the wounds on his card help things out? Sure he could take a single wound here and there, but he could also take 2, 3, or 4 as well.

Those are effectively the same thing.

[Hahma]

Originally Posted by Karat

Those are effectively the same thing.

PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control would receive one or more wounds, you may instead place 1 Wound Marker on this card.

Is not effectively the same thing as below.

PROTECT AND SERVE
Anytime an adjacent figure you control would receive one or more wounds, you must instead place those Wound Markers on this card.

The post you quoted, was of me commenting/pointing out the changes I offered that were highlighted in red in the quoted power text in my post.

Based on the concerns of this guy before and after the last tests, I was just asking if a change that made Cash take the wounds, would help out. While he would still be able to only take 1 wound at times this way and not be too much different than he currently is, he would also end up taking many more wounds that could kill him, and it wouldn't be a choice to do so anymore. It would make who and when he's adjacent to be much more of an important choice, he could end up getting one-shotted like a Beat Cop.