Interview questions for how C3V and SoV work in sanctum

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

The only one I’ve seen being the least bit dismissive of you here is me and

1. I’ve explained my perspective on that
2. I’m not remotely active in VC and certainly am not any official voice for them.

I was talking about the general attidude of the project most of the time, not this specific thread.

[IAmBatman]

So when you said “now” you meant what, exactly?

[Pumpkin_King]

This is becoming off topic I feel.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

This is becoming off topic I feel.

Yes it is. Please take side conversations elsewhere.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by quozl

Yes it is. Please take side conversations elsewhere.

Sorry, ed.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

You (note that any use of 'you' is directed towards VC as a whole) don't seem to be interested in outside criticism or engagement. It almost feels as though the main purpose of the customs community is to provide cards for you to judge and to test C3V units for you, and any further engagement, in either direction, is discouraged. Unless someone is in the 'in' crowd, you otherwise seem to not care about their opinions. New ideas or perspectives are discouraged and rejected, both in design and in structure.

Please don't lump C3V and SoV together in these discussions. We work in tandem, certainly, and have influence over each other, but are separate projects with different designs and goals. I am looking at your criticism to find ways to improve SoV, but I have been unable to do as many of your comments seem focused on the secrecy and cliqueinees of the C3V. If there are things about SoV that can be improved, I'd like to know.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

SoV nominees often seem to be judged on the basis of personal prejudice (I remember one design from years ago being voted down by a judge who stated that it was, at least partially, because it 'didn't fit his playstyle') rather than accepted for the sake of the people who are interested in them. VC offers zero capability for engagement beyond submitting units to an inefficient system that has very specific requirements, takes an age to do anything, will probably only approve anything specifically crafted for it, gives conflicting messages and demands to any design that wants to go through it, and might not like what you've done anyway - one that asks that no workshopping be done in the thread yet still requires that something be 'perfect'.

Yes, it's pretty harsh that we require perfection and do not go back and help the submitter workshop the unit. In our defense, workshopping a unit is just not what SoV was designed to do and, frankly, there's no way we would ever have the time and energy to do so. We put in killer hours with what we already have. Workshopping a unit through the process is essentially what C3V is designed to do, so we would be stomping on their toes if we did the same.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

SoV judges also tend to have a tendency to treat their opinions as gospel - to respond to people's designs with how it 'should' be done, rather than just advise. There's an undercurrent of arrogance that seems to permeate the whole system.

Are you talking about the Pre-SoV and other workshopping parts or the review process?

In terms of reviews, yes, we are firm in our opinions. There would be no point to our job if we weren't. It's literally our job to be discerning. If everything is great and fine, why don't tournaments allow people to bring their own customs? There isn't just a balance concern either. To make an extreme example, allowing an obscene unit would just be terrible. It's all about drawing lines. It's about what fits into the original game called Heroscape and what doesn't. When the Marvel set was made there were all sorts of fights about whether or not they belonged with the original game. When the D&D sets came out, quite a few people quit buying since they didn't think it fit the game. Different people have different lines, and VC members are far from united on this topic.

That said, it is our job to be impartial in some ways. I've reviewed plenty of units they aren't my cup of tea, but that's not what I'm supposed to be judging them on. If a judge votes based on such bias, they have failed at their job. Sometimes we shuttle units around behind the scenes so judges don't have to try to review units they are too biased against or just can't play well. However, that is quite different than judging units on whether or not they are the best of the best. That has to mean something, or the project has no point.

Our contributions to the Pre-SoV workshop thread have been our attempt to address exactly your concern about engagement. Like I said, we're not a workshop project, and we don't have time to be. But we do try to take some time to help workshop units when people request it. We probably look like pretentious dicks doing so.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Honestly, just look at anything I've said in the SoV and C3V Feedback thread or the SoV thread.

I always look at your comments. I always try to see things from your viewpoint and try to understand your frustration. But I have been unsuccessful thus far. Amidst the insults and dismissive attitude, most of your comments seem directly at C3V, or at least your complaints. I want to know what the SoV can do better to serve the community.

[kolakoski]

Well met!


I would like to thank everyone who has been indulging me lately. You know who you are. I do not know how you all do things, but I keep tinkering with a design to make it more fun and thematic (with the right sculpt) to play. I have not found anyone here unapproachable. However, they do insist that you brainstorm on your own time. But playtesting with another person is necessary for me to know how these customs feel when played. When I dropped in on the Workshop with real play impressions, real suggestions with real reasons were presented. I've come up with responses to those suggestions that are a bit tangential, but I am confident that the back and forth will eventually lead us to create another unit that looks and plays uniquely and intuitively in an elegant, thematic way - and is fun to play and play against - like Kha. I expect it will take some time.


I am grateful that it is so challenging to create a unit for SoV induction. I'm glad they take preservation of the game so seriously. Otherwise, it wold be like Warhammer, where you had to have the latest figures to compete. Or they let in Penguins with Machineguns. [Then I'd quit. Just so you know.] Or did you slip them in under the guise of Microcorps Agents?There is an art to making a unit that belongs in Heroscape. [I was sooooo pissed about the Bolt of Witherwood, but I got over it - sort of.]

Please read the previous post carefully. And try "hearing" what it has to say. To paraphrase someone, if one person thinks your unit doesn't belong in Heroscape, maybe that person is misguided. But if many say it doesn't, and no one but you defends it, . . .


P.S.: There is a way you could help [me, at least]. I often design sculpt first. I don't know where to find decent, non-fantasy sculpts in quantity that would be suitable for SoV induction. I have a feeling that a number of my ideas would have more traction on non-fantasy characters. [I will find a context for Reversal and Ruthless Reversal that you won't be able to refuse.]

[superfrog]

Here's some questions that (I think) I know the answers to, but may be interesting to some readers:

How many "levels" are there to VC? Are all of them active? Does every VC member have access to every VC thread?

How does the C3V/SoV relationship work behind the scenes? Does the C3V have a private space that the SoV cannot access? Does the SoV have a private space that C3V members cannot access? Who gets to vote on the final releases of C3V units and SoV units?

What does the Executive Review Board do?

Over the course of a design's time in the C3V, approximately how many people have input in the mechanics and theme of the design? Do some people have more of a say than others?

I have a design that I think is pretty good, and uses a really sweet miniature, but I'm not sure I have the time to polish it up and get it ready for SoV. How can I tell the C3V about my design and the miniature I'm using?

[kevindola]

What is it.....that you'd say Kinseth does here?

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by kevindola

What is it.....that you'd say Kinseth does here?

[Leaf_It]

A landscaper reforms the land where they are working, to make it look nicer. With this in mind, what exactly does Dad_Scaper do to dads to make them better?

[kolakoski]

Well met!


Not sure if this is the place for this . . .


Are Toxic Skin and Expendable Rabble reuseable?

[Pumpkin_King]

That isn’t a question for how VC works behind the scenes.