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  #61  
Old May 26th, 2020, 03:30 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

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Phantom Menace was always at the bottom of my list, until The Last Jedi came along. Plenty of flaws in the final trilogy, but still wondering if it would have been better overall if JJ Abrams had been in charge of all 3.

I agree that the prequels advanced the story much more than the final 3.
I'm pretty adamant about Force Awakens being the actual weak link. While it was probably the best standalone film, it set up way too many weird things that they didn't know how to handle. I think Last Jedi did a great job handling a lot of the pointless stuff that TFA threw at it. Skywalker backtracking has no excuse though.

No matter what, having a concrete plan all the way through is what they were lacking. I don't blame any specific director either. Probably would have been more cohesive is one guy directed them all, but the bottom line is that Disney was supervising and signed off on everything. The Star Wars group just failed because they rushed everything. Skywalker just made all of the previous canon completely pointless, and someone signed off on that. Bizarre.
I see Last Jedi as looking at all those loose ends (agreed, too many) and saying, "Nah. I don't want to follow any of those storylines. I'll just make up my own."


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  #62  
Old May 26th, 2020, 03:36 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

Actually, I just figured out the last trilogy. After taking years of abuse about the prequels and messing with the original trilogy, George Lucas used the power of the Dark Side to manipulate the movie makers to produce an uneven, poorly conceived finale trilogy.


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  #63  
Old May 26th, 2020, 03:52 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

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I see Last Jedi as looking at all those loose ends (agreed, too many) and saying, "Nah. I don't want to follow any of those storylines. I'll just make up my own."
TLJ shouldn't have had to follow those loose ends. They were garbage and would have made for a worse film (In my opinion of course). I loved the twists that it had, definitely still had problems, but TLJ was the most unique of the sequels and actually had a plot that moved forward. At the end of the film things were much different for the characters, while the other two films felt stagnate. Every single character in TLJ had an arc, and grew as characters and people. I like that in storytelling. Skywalker literally had no character growth, unless you call Kylo's redemption growth. And that felt really forced.

I get why people don't like some of the choices in TLJ, I just thought as a story it was much better written and directed. But we're talking about the best of the worst trilogy.
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  #64  
Old May 26th, 2020, 04:34 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

I mean Disney changed everything for Rise of Skywalker because people endlessly complained online for a year and they wanted to retcon as much of it as possible without admitting that "made a mistake" (in quotes because TLJ is by far one of the best Star Wars movies). I don't really feel much sympathy for the people who continue to complain now about TLJ and TROS in addition, because this is basically what they asked for. But I also didn't feel much sympathy before because they are wrong about TLJ.

My guess is TROS was kind of boring so they added in Rey Palpatine late in the game because they needed a twist. The whole movie feels cobbled together and definitely a product of them trying to appease the entire fan base at once. I can't really blame them, I think it's almost impossible to make a Star Wars movie for mass audiences today. Even though the side stories are a lot more boring to me than the main saga, I think that really all that can be made anymore is side movies since those can't "ruin" anything for anyone.

As a fan of TLJ I'm a little disappointed they didn't follow through on some of the more interesting moments of that story (Rey and Kylo growing into leaders of their respective sides, no more Skywalker saber, Luke's sacrifice as inspirational for Resistance). But like whatever I can just go back and watch TLJ and all of that's still in there. Honestly the failure of Rise of Skywalker is maybe okay given how good TLJ is.

Anyway back to the main question. I can't really rate the trilogies across because they're all so different but I think Attack of the Clones is the best prequel and The Last Jedi is the best sequel and A New Hope is the best original. I don't feel that strongly about the side stories Rogue One/Solo/Mandalorian. All of them are kind of boring to me and feel a little bit like fan films that don't really even try do anything interesting but they're all okay. I'm curious to see where they go from here for sure.
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  #65  
Old May 26th, 2020, 04:49 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

  1. Empire Strikes Back - Best acting and drama of any SW movie, easily.
  2. New Hope - Kept it simple and introduced the universe in a great way.
  3. Solo - fun movie that, unlike so many other Star Wars movies, wasn't crushed under the weight of trying to get somewhere in particular.
  4. The Force Awakens - ridiculously derivative of New Hope, and hand-waves away the entire ending of Return of the Jedi. But it's a fun ride and I liked the characters.
  5. Rogue One - it was hard for me to get over the fact that they were just going to kill everyone at the end, but it was a pretty good ride.
  6. Return of the Jedi - secretly a very flawed movie. Leia reveal is absurd, Ewoks are absurd, Jabba sequence is too long. But it does bring the original trilogy to a satisfying end, which is more than you can really say for the other two trilogies.
  7. The Last Jedi - Not nearly as bad as the haters said - I thought it took things in an interesting direction, and after 8 movies before it it was good to subvert expectations a bit. But it was definitely flawed in some ways.
  8. Rise of Skywalker - The retcons and forced plot points in this movie were far more distracting and immersion-breaking than anything in the previous installment. It benefited from the strong character development of the previous films, but still felt pretty empty to me.
  9. Revenge of the Sith - Made more sense and had me care more about the action than its predecessors, but still felt like a CGI-filled theme park ride.
  10. Attack of the Clones - very tough call between the last two here. In the end I think this one is more fun to watch again than Phantom Menace, even if the plot is an incoherent mess and the action sequences have very little stakes.
  11. Phantom Menace - Other than Qui-Gon's death I have very little to say for this one. JarJar and Jake Lloyd make it tough to just get through it.
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  #66  
Old May 26th, 2020, 05:09 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Quote:
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I see Last Jedi as looking at all those loose ends (agreed, too many) and saying, "Nah. I don't want to follow any of those storylines. I'll just make up my own."
TLJ shouldn't have had to follow those loose ends. They were garbage and would have made for a worse film (In my opinion of course). I loved the twists that it had, definitely still had problems, but TLJ was the most unique of the sequels and actually had a plot that moved forward. At the end of the film things were much different for the characters, while the other two films felt stagnate. Every single character in TLJ had an arc, and grew as characters and people. I like that in storytelling. Skywalker literally had no character growth, unless you call Kylo's redemption growth. And that felt really forced.

I get why people don't like some of the choices in TLJ, I just thought as a story it was much better written and directed. But we're talking about the best of the worst trilogy.
We'll have to agree to disagree about TLJ being the best of a bad trilogy. The fact that it deviated from Episode 7 made it more like someone's idea of a Star Wars story as opposed to the center portion of a larger arc. While flawed, TFA set up a story line that was fairly entertaining and would have been better (though likely not great) had it been followed through and built upon by the next 2 movies. Disney felt they would make a ton of money no matter what dreck was foisted upon the fans.

I am cautiously optimistic about the future of the Star Wars Universe. "The Mandalorian" was very good. I'm hopeful they can follow up with an equally strong second season and get a quality Obi-Wan series out.


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  #67  
Old May 26th, 2020, 05:52 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

Yeah I just have the opposite viewpoint: TFA was boring and derivative and didn't set up anything interesting, and TLJ made the most of it and forged ahead.

Mandalorian was great. The finale of Clone Wars was beautiful. Can't wait for Kenobi!!!!!
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  #68  
Old May 26th, 2020, 09:14 PM
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Wasn't going to chime in originally but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by vegietarian18
I don't really feel much sympathy for the people who continue to complain now about TLJ and TROS in addition, because this is basically what they asked for.
Absolute bullsh*t. TLJ is awful because of its abysmal writing and RoS has the exact same problem. They're just two different flavors of bad; one just happens to be more desperate to please than the other. It's like ordering a medium steak and getting a raw one because the cook wanted to "subvert my expectations", sending it back and then getting one burnt to a crisp that tastes like lighter fluid because the manager was trying way too hard to fix the problem. I'd hardly call that getting what I deserve.

I'd say RoS is slightly better than TLJ just because it's more enjoyably bad and at the very least JJ Abrams knows what a throwaway line is, but honestly you could endlessly sort which of the Disney Trilogy is the best and which one is the worst depending on who you ask.

At least The Clone Wars four-part finale was fantastic.

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  #69  
Old May 26th, 2020, 09:26 PM
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Re: Best To Worst Star Wars Movie By Ranking Individual Chap

My hot take is there are only 2 good Star Wars movies. The rest are mediocre to poor.
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  #70  
Old May 27th, 2020, 11:01 AM
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Re: Wasn't going to chime in originally but...

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It's like ordering a medium steak and getting a raw one because the cook wanted to "subvert my expectations", sending it back and then getting one burnt to a crisp that tastes like lighter fluid because the manager was trying way too hard to fix the problem. I'd hardly call that getting what I deserve.
But see that's exactly why I think Avatar and Pacific Rim are really bad films. 5 minutes into both of them I knew exactly what was going to happen. I don't want a paint by numbers films, I want to see something new and exciting. But I also really like trying as many new foods as possible. I'm not a "steak and potatoes all day every day" kind of guy.

It's just a total different mindset. I totally understand why people didn't like seeing the characters act certain ways. I personally love it when you throw as many curveballs as characters and throw them through the ringer and see how they react. It's one reason Battlestar Galactica is my favorite TV show. They pounded and pounded those characters, and seeing all of them break in different ways and dealing with consequences is fantastic to me.

I'm never going to argue TLJ is an amazing movie. The whole sequels are riddled with issues. Like I said above, if all of them were more like TFA, fine. If all of them were like TLJ, fine. The issue is that ROS isn't connected to the previous 2 in any way. It threw out all character development from TLJ, and basically rehashed TFA yet again (Gotta find the macguffin, also Death Star at the end).
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  #71  
Old May 27th, 2020, 11:20 AM
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Unpopular?

I liked TLJ but it probably has more to do with the fact that I love subverting expectations and I have liked pretty much everything I've seen from Rian Johnson.

I also have a hard time hating PM because the movie introduced me to Liam Neeson. I find AotC the worst because it has very long segments of boringness.

I think I align pretty closely to everyone else on everything else.

~Dysole, who admittedly enjoys a number of spec fic series a lot more than Star Wars
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  #72  
Old May 27th, 2020, 11:24 AM
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Re: Unpopular?

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I find AotC the worst because it has very long segments of boringness.
As bad as Anakin and Jar Jar were in TPM, I get physically ill during the "romance" in AOTC
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