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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies. |
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#49
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Re: Metagame Evolution
Count me among those who think the game is far more interesting (and balanced) with glyphs then without. Well placed glyphs really reward mobility and serve as a disincentive for simply camping out on high ground. I think the right mix of glyphs go a long way to help balance the range versus melee and hero versus squad inequities.
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#50
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Re: Metagame Evolution
Of the two tournaments I've been to, one had glyphs and the other didn't. I greatly enjoyed both formats. Without glyphs it feels a bit more even, but with glyphs I enjoy the challenge of trying to pry it from their control.
I hope the Treasure glyphs change some of the squadscape, but I'm unsure about how many Treasure glyphs on a map it would take before that really shift really happens. If there are only 2 treasures on a map (seems to be the norm for glyphs) then I don't think it will change squadscape; having a hero with +1 attack or defense doesn't seem all that much more useful than without when fighting squads. If the treasures got really crazy and allowed say for an extra attack, then yes I could see heroes becoming powerful, but simply replacing the glyphs with treasures doesn't seem like a huge change to me. In forest dark or glade beferned
No blade of grass shall go unturned Let those who have the daylight spurned Tread not where this green lamp has burned. |
#51
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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I agree that glyphs aren't great. They can help lend balance to a map, but given some armies they do the opposite. I know at the same tournament Clancambell mentioned I brought the AE because I knew that lodin and unique attack would be on a lot of maps. I can safely say I won two matches because of glyphs and glyphs alone. |
#52
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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Is there are chance we're in a new metagame era yet or not? Raelin and Rats still rule the rankings, but the resurgence of Heavies at GenCon and the rapid reprints and releases have had some effect on things I think. I wonder if D&D will have any further effects. |
#53
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Re: Metagame Evolution
I think it's largely dependent on the map selection. Turret Rocks, for example, just wouldn't be the same without the glyph. A well designed map that includes glyphs should give thought to where those glyphs are and what having those glyphs in play does to the map.
I do think there are certain glyphs that are unbalanced when placed randomly. I'm not a huge fan of the attack glyphs or defense glyphs on any map that isn't specifically designed for them. I think they have the biggest swing effect on gameplay and can be unbalancing on certain maps. (That, and I was on the receiving end of EP's juiced AE at said tourney - damn glyph.) The item glyphs I think have some good potential. I love that they offer a unit-specific boost instead of a global effect and that they can be carried. I think that opens a fascinating new dynamic in terms of gameplay. I also don't think anyone would begrudge a hero-boost. Will it constitute a shift in the metagame? Dunno - I think it's up to the mapmakers at this point. I'm interested to see whether they'll integrate well with the existing maps; I have my doubts but haven't done any testing yet. If we can get some good, solid tourney maps that use the treasure glyphs in an interesting an fun way, then I think we'll see a bit of a shift, but it's obviously a bit early to prognosticate. |
#54
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Re: Metagame Evolution
The Warriors of the Ghostlight Fen pack alone contains 2 units that will, in my opinion, impact the metagame significantly.
1. Phantom Knights. Major impact. Counter to ranged squads and glyph grabber extrordinaire. 2. Hydra. So many uses, so few points. Offensive juggernaut all by itself and 6 defense. Wow! Phantom Knights/Raelin replaces Deathreavers/Raelin as favored basis of Valhalla Society builds. Under certain circumstances, Phantom Knights/Deathreavers/Raelin could make an appearance. Phantom Knights/Raelin/Hydra even more so. In any event, the monolithic, homogeneous squadscape advocates face their greatest challenge. P.S.: As much as I like the GIE and the Wyvern, and others fear Kurrock and company, I don't see them as having a significant impact on the metagame. Looking forward to the Hero pack! |
#55
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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#56
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Re: Metagame Evolution
Well, it's a moving target, right? No one army can ever be completely dominant, because no army is favored against all opposing armies.
I can't imagine a "metagame endgame" having fewer than three major builds playing prominently. An obvious possible endgame would be one 4th Mass build, one Heavy Grut build, and one rats&range build. 4th beat gruts beat ratpodge beat 4th. I don't think there's a possible army that's favored against all three. There's plenty of armies out there that beat one of those most of the time, though, so it's extremely unlikely that things would ever get that stale. I guess the interesting theoryscape question is: can you construct a trio of armies at a given point level such that no army would be favored in general against two of them? |
#57
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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#58
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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That said, if you can simply balance out those matchups, you've accomplished something meaningful. I think this does demonstrate how hard it is to nail down the metagame even with a group of builds. |
#59
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Re: Metagame Evolution
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He thought, "what if I just play all of the good units, even though they don't really make that much sense together?" It was a lot like the popular Q9 build, only with Mass instead of Laglor/Krav. For 550, he played: Major Q9 180 3x 4th Mass 390 Raelin 470 2x Deathreavers 550 In our playtesting, he crushed everything I threw at him. I was 0-8 over a few days of games on the maps for Wytefang's tourney. I went 2-1 against him in our playtesting when I switched to Nilfheim, Cyp, Sonya, 3x Deathreavers, Marro Warriors. It was a very similar kind of army, just with more of my sense of style at the time. But what he actually lost to the day of the tourney was what you'd probably call his pseudo-mirror: a standard Mattser Vydar range pod... + 2x Rats. |
#60
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Re: Metagame Evolution
I'm very interested to see how all the DnD stuff will play out in the meta-game. A lot of stuff counters some of the better tournament builds in theory, but how it plays out could be totally different.
I know Zelrig was a big scare for awhile but did he change the meta-game? I think there's arguements for both sides. Same with the repulsors. Did they change the meta-game? Will Lonewolf think twice about using trons this year at Gen Con because of them? Will the FEs make Matthias think twice about bringing knights, orcs, or dwarves to Gen Con? Will the Greenscales dominate the field? I'm very interested to see how this all plays out. Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G |
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