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  #181  
Old October 3rd, 2012, 07:32 PM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

I'm gonna pop in while I've got a bit of time and respond to White Knights point on characters that have already established lifespans (historical or Middle Earth) coming to Valhalla. If we were to assume that the Generals can in fact use the Wellsprings to send living warriors back to their homeworlds when the war is over (it has been mentioned in the Journals/bios, though I don't recall exactly where), then those characters could theoretically be summoned by a General, fight for months, even years on Valhalla, then be sent back to their homes just moments in the timeline from when they originally were summoned.

Not that it was a very big concern, but still, worth covering.
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  #182  
Old October 4th, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I'll go ahead and post my use cases, but I'd like to see a few more from those of you who feel strongly about this.

I think these get the idea across.

use case - creating a Vision Statement (or any other major decision that affects the entire project and its membership)
-The ERB starts discussion with the Membership regarding a Vision Statement. Maybe they have an initial draft they want people to discuss, or maybe they're just looking for ideas.
-Over the course of a week or several days, the Membership discusses what they'd like to see in the Vision Statement, or they discuss the draft.
-After everyone has said their peace, the ERB drafts a final Vision Statement, tweaks it amongst themselves, and then proposes it before the entire Membership.

use case - Choosing Characters to Design
-the Membership/ERB decides what area of Tolkien's work they want to focus on next, and come to a loose idea of how to focus on that work--by appearance in the work, by importance, etc. There may or may not be a general vote for this step. The Membership as a whole will probably decide this together at first (I think we've already settled on LotR), but over time the ERB will become more responsible for selecting which areas to focus on, while measuring the interest and desire of the Membership
-the ERB puts together a rough list of characters they want the Membership to design based on the decisions made in the previous step. No general vote is required. The ERB may or may not vote on their list.
-the Membership brainstorms ideas for each character from the list and moves them into the process, one by one

use case - Choosing Who Will Be the "Lead Designer" for Which Designs
-multiple people make one or more proposed design interpretations for a character
-the group discusses the pros and cons of the different versions on terms of theme, playability, and balance issues
-as discussion goes on, we will hopefully come to a consensus about which design best meets the theme of the character while being represented elegantly in the Heroscape system
-sometimes, the final design that moves out of brainstorming might combine elements from multiple proposals
-typically, the author of the "draft" that we decide to use will have first pick to use a character, but there will also be other considerations
-if someone really wants to be the "Lead Designer" for a particular character, for instance, their desire will be considered by the Membership as part of the proposal to move the Design out of Brainstorming.
-I think our process is going to be very collaborative though, so the Lead Designer is mainly just "responsible" for generating discussion on the design

use case - Wave Planning
-The ERB, in conjunction with anything laid out in the Mission Statement or decisions made by the Membership as a whole, begins planning how to release designs that are completed or are nearing completion.
-If someone in the Membership has a suggestion for moving a design from one release to a different release, or calling a release a different name, or something like that, they are welcome to offer their input.
-sometimes only one or two ERB members will end up doing most of this work.
-once the ERB reaches a layout that they like, they put it to a vote amongst themselves to confirm it.
-the ERB may or may not put the overall Wave layout to a general vote.
-if they do this and their layout is turned down, they should take suggestions from the membership on how to improve it.

The ERB is like a ship captain, (a captain of a privately-owned ship, not a military ship); they plot the course, but they will not lead the crew where the crew will not follow. They don't have the authority to flog anybody or throw anybody overboard either. They're there because the crew trusts them to lead the way.

The idea with the use cases is not that any one person's vision will be what we do, but that we can get a clearer picture of what each person is expecting.
Nearly flawless! The only thing I would add in is that, I think the ERB should have the final say in whether, or not we accept someone into the ranks of play testing. They would make their decision after: every member has expressed their opinion on the person in question, and after viewing some (if not all) of the post's of the person in question (the admins do something like this, when someone requests contributer status).

Other than that, I think it's perfect!


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They don't have the authority to flog anybody or throw anybody overboard either.
Darn, no flogging.
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  #183  
Old October 4th, 2012, 08:43 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

A good suggestion Joseph, but I would apply it to a membership application rather than play testing: play testing is something we want as much help with as possible.
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  #184  
Old October 4th, 2012, 08:55 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Sweeney View Post
Nearly flawless! The only thing I would add in is that, I think the ERB should have the final say in whether, or not we accept someone into the ranks of play testing. They would make their decision after: every member has expressed their opinion on the person in question, and after viewing some (if not all) of the post's of the person in question (the admins do something like this, when someone requests contributer status).
Project Pokemon came to a stop because we couldn't get playtesters.

HoSS has a long list of figures that need playtesting--and are actively recruiting more.

Maybe we SHOULD dream big and think that HoME will be more like C3V and C3G, and so we'll have plenty of playtesters and people who want to become members. But I'd rather disregard a playtest that is not really useful rather than turn away a playtester. Sure, we might get a bad apple now and then who is causing heated arguements, but we are an open forum--we can't keep them from posting anyways. We can't even stop them from posting a playtest. Hopefully, we can gently nudge them into becoming helpful to the group.

'd by Cap
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  #185  
Old October 4th, 2012, 10:09 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
A good suggestion Joseph, but I would apply it to a membership application...
That was basically what I was trying to say, I worded it as such because, I thought we were referring to all members as play-testers (because we would all be play-testing). Sorry for the confusion.
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  #186  
Old October 4th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
A good suggestion Joseph, but I would apply it to a membership application rather than play testing: play testing is something we want as much help with as possible.
I agree with this 100%. Even with our membership playtesting, we're going to need all of the help we can get, and turning people away or taking even a small amount of time to vote on allowing persons to playtest will result in a percentage of those people, however small it might be, being turned off by the delay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates
I'll go ahead and post my use cases, but I'd like to see a few more from those of you who feel strongly about this.

I think these get the idea across.

use case - creating a Vision Statement (or any other major decision that affects the entire project and its membership)
-The ERB starts discussion with the Membership regarding a Vision Statement. Maybe they have an initial draft they want people to discuss, or maybe they're just looking for ideas.
-Over the course of a week or several days, the Membership discusses what they'd like to see in the Vision Statement, or they discuss the draft.
-After everyone has said their peace, the ERB drafts a final Vision Statement, tweaks it amongst themselves, and then proposes it before the entire Membership.

use case - Choosing Characters to Design
-the Membership/ERB decides what area of Tolkien's work they want to focus on next, and come to a loose idea of how to focus on that work--by appearance in the work, by importance, etc. There may or may not be a general vote for this step. The Membership as a whole will probably decide this together at first (I think we've already settled on LotR), but over time the ERB will become more responsible for selecting which areas to focus on, while measuring the interest and desire of the Membership
-the ERB puts together a rough list of characters they want the Membership to design based on the decisions made in the previous step. No general vote is required. The ERB may or may not vote on their list.
-the Membership brainstorms ideas for each character from the list and moves them into the process, one by one

use case - Choosing Who Will Be the "Lead Designer" for Which Designs
-multiple people make one or more proposed design interpretations for a character
-the group discusses the pros and cons of the different versions on terms of theme, playability, and balance issues
-as discussion goes on, we will hopefully come to a consensus about which design best meets the theme of the character while being represented elegantly in the Heroscape system
-sometimes, the final design that moves out of brainstorming might combine elements from multiple proposals
-typically, the author of the "draft" that we decide to use will have first pick to use a character, but there will also be other considerations
-if someone really wants to be the "Lead Designer" for a particular character, for instance, their desire will be considered by the Membership as part of the proposal to move the Design out of Brainstorming.
-I think our process is going to be very collaborative though, so the Lead Designer is mainly just "responsible" for generating discussion on the design

use case - Wave Planning
-The ERB, in conjunction with anything laid out in the Mission Statement or decisions made by the Membership as a whole, begins planning how to release designs that are completed or are nearing completion.
-If someone in the Membership has a suggestion for moving a design from one release to a different release, or calling a release a different name, or something like that, they are welcome to offer their input.
-sometimes only one or two ERB members will end up doing most of this work.
-once the ERB reaches a layout that they like, they put it to a vote amongst themselves to confirm it.
-the ERB may or may not put the overall Wave layout to a general vote.
-if they do this and their layout is turned down, they should take suggestions from the membership on how to improve it.

The ERB is like a ship captain, (a captain of a privately-owned ship, not a military ship); they plot the course, but they will not lead the crew where the crew will not follow. They don't have the authority to flog anybody or throw anybody overboard either. They're there because the crew trusts them to lead the way.

The idea with the use cases is not that any one person's vision will be what we do, but that we can get a clearer picture of what each person is expecting.
This looks great to me. The idea of the members placing a trust in the ERB, without giving them too much authority over decisions that the group feels strongly about, will replicate the idea of a guiding hand rather than a ruling fist (the metaphor is dramatic, but you get the idea).
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  #187  
Old October 4th, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Sweeney View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
A good suggestion Joseph, but I would apply it to a membership application...
That was basically what I was trying to say, I worded it as such because, I thought we were referring to all members as play-testers (because we would all be play-testing). Sorry for the confusion.
No worries, that makes sense.

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  #188  
Old October 4th, 2012, 01:02 PM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

I guess right now we're waiting on Xorlof's ERB rules. Then we can vote on ERB, vote on the generals, and get moving again.
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  #189  
Old October 4th, 2012, 01:06 PM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
I guess right now we're waiting on Xorlof's ERB rules. Then we can vote on ERB, vote on the generals, and get moving again.
Yes. I'm still hoping for some more critique from our "critiquers", but it looks like that's how things are going to go down.
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  #190  
Old October 4th, 2012, 09:59 PM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Terribly sorry everyone, I've been busy, and simply checking up on my subscribed threads. I thought it was a bit quiet on the LotR front

Hopefully I'll be able to get all caught up tomorrow.
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  #191  
Old October 6th, 2012, 05:06 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

It's late, and am tired, so this is going to be short.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
I'll go ahead and post my use cases, but I'd like to see a few more from those of you who feel strongly about this.

I think these get the idea across.

use case - creating a Vision Statement (or any other major decision that affects the entire project and its membership)
-The ERB starts discussion with the Membership regarding a Vision Statement. Maybe they have an initial draft they want people to discuss, or maybe they're just looking for ideas.
-Over the course of a week or several days, the Membership discusses what they'd like to see in the Vision Statement, or they discuss the draft.
-After everyone has said their peace, the ERB drafts a final Vision Statement, tweaks it amongst themselves, and then proposes it before the entire Membership.
Looks good, except I think major decisions should be put up to a group vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
use case - Choosing Characters to Design
-the Membership/ERB decides what area of Tolkien's work they want to focus on next, and come to a loose idea of how to focus on that work--by appearance in the work, by importance, etc. There may or may not be a general vote for this step. The Membership as a whole will probably decide this together at first (I think we've already settled on LotR), but over time the ERB will become more responsible for selecting which areas to focus on, while measuring the interest and desire of the Membership
-the ERB puts together a rough list of characters they want the Membership to design based on the decisions made in the previous step. No general vote is required. The ERB may or may not vote on their list.
-the Membership brainstorms ideas for each character from the list and moves them into the process, one by one
Agreed. I don't think which figures to design first will be a major problem, for now at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
use case - Choosing Who Will Be the "Lead Designer" for Which Designs
-multiple people make one or more proposed design interpretations for a character
-the group discusses the pros and cons of the different versions on terms of theme, playability, and balance issues
-as discussion goes on, we will hopefully come to a consensus about which design best meets the theme of the character while being represented elegantly in the Heroscape system
-sometimes, the final design that moves out of brainstorming might combine elements from multiple proposals
-typically, the author of the "draft" that we decide to use will have first pick to use a character, but there will also be other considerations
-if someone really wants to be the "Lead Designer" for a particular character, for instance, their desire will be considered by the Membership as part of the proposal to move the Design out of Brainstorming.
-I think our process is going to be very collaborative though, so the Lead Designer is mainly just "responsible" for generating discussion on the design
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
use case - Wave Planning
-The ERB, in conjunction with anything laid out in the Mission Statement or decisions made by the Membership as a whole, begins planning how to release designs that are completed or are nearing completion.
-If someone in the Membership has a suggestion for moving a design from one release to a different release, or calling a release a different name, or something like that, they are welcome to offer their input.
-sometimes only one or two ERB members will end up doing most of this work.
-once the ERB reaches a layout that they like, they put it to a vote amongst themselves to confirm it.
-the ERB may or may not put the overall Wave layout to a general vote.
-if they do this and their layout is turned down, they should take suggestions from the membership on how to improve it.
Have we definitively decided that we are going to release figures in waves yet? With this being a public group, and all our finished designs going into the finalized units thread I don't see much of a need for waves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
The ERB is like a ship captain, (a captain of a privately-owned ship, not a military ship); they plot the course, but they will not lead the crew where the crew will not follow. They don't have the authority to flog anybody or throw anybody overboard either. They're there because the crew trusts them to lead the way.
Nice analogy, I agree.

Once Xorlof submits his draft, we can start hammering out a final draft, then vote on it. When that's done I want to say my last peace about the generals, then we can vote on that. After that I think we can start designing some figures.

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  #192  
Old October 6th, 2012, 05:17 AM
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Re: HoME General Discussion Thread

Glad to see we're more or less on the same page, IS.

As for waves, we'll be doing everything publicly so that members who hang out in the customs section can see it, but those that don't (like myself before I got involved in this project) won't ever see when we're done with however much we're done with.

If we release in waves, we can do a big front-page release, something like
"Heroes of Middle Earth releases first Master Set: The Fellowship" or something like that, and everyone who came to the site would see it. That's the kind of publicity we're shooting for, and it has more of an effect than "Heroes of Middle Earth has made some LotR customs."

Also, a release says "Look, these units are done, and you can use them with these other units that are done, and they'll all work together" but if we release stuff one at a time as they're finished, we could end up with Merry but no Pippin for a few weeks/months, or some similar situation where people know that Merry is "done," but Pippin is not available. That's just a random example, but I think you get my drift.

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