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  #49  
Old November 27th, 2012, 04:25 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

I added a full table to your gdoc. It's pretty easy to calculate since it's just the probability of the attacker whiffing times the probability of the defender not whiffing.
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  #50  
Old November 27th, 2012, 04:48 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal View Post
Fledgling Counter Strike
When this Green Wyrmling is attacked, if the attacker rolls no skulls, all shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
Love this idea: Fear the whiff! Though it might be best to cap impact to two wounds like the Black Wyrmling.

I think even higher defense would be acceptable with this change as the number of defense dice has little impact on the chance the ability will trigger (don't whiff and you won't be punished). Defense of 5, Attack of 3 would better fit with Charos thematically, and keep points at 35.

Great idea,

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Last edited by tannergx; November 27th, 2012 at 04:51 PM. Reason: Made a false statement...
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  #51  
Old November 27th, 2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Hmmm, the numbers in your spreadsheet match mine - but above you have 10.138% for 4 defence - the spreadsheet has 10.03%.

I also calculated the average damage. As above, this is the probability of counterstrike and the average damage. My worry was this latter would be too high. It's not.

probablity
A …… normal……on whiff only .. %reduction
1 …… 60.49%……40.12% ….....… 33.7%
2 …… 42.59%……20.06% ….....… 52.9%
3 …… 29.63%……10.03% …....... 66.1%
4 …… 19.68%.… 5.02% …......… 74.5%

damage done
A …… normal……on whiff only .. % reduction
1 …… 0.93 …… 0.67 …........… 28.5%
2 …… 0.62 …… 0.33 …........… 46.5%
3 …… 0.41 …… 0.17 …........… 59.7%
4 …… 0.27 …… 0.08 …........… 68.6%

One thing - shouldn't the power read "vs normal attack"

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  #52  
Old November 27th, 2012, 07:30 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnT2 View Post
Hmmm, the numbers in your spreadsheet match mine - but above you have 10.138% for 4 defence - the spreadsheet has 10.03%.

I also calculated the average damage. As above, this is the probability of counterstrike and the average damage. My worry was this latter would be too high. It's not.

probablity
A …… normal……on whiff only .. %reduction
1 …… 60.49%……40.12% ….....… 33.7%
2 …… 42.59%……20.06% ….....… 52.9%
3 …… 29.63%……10.03% …...... 66.1%
4 …… 19.68%.… 5.02% …......… 74.5%

damage done
A …… normal……on whiff only .. % reduction
1 …… 0.93 …… 0.67 …........… 28.5%
2 …… 0.62 …… 0.33 …........… 46.5%
3 …… 0.41 …… 0.17 …........… 59.7%
4 …… 0.27 …… 0.08 …........… 68.6%
Those look like pretty reasonable numbers. They might almost be too weak, but of you factor in the Wyrmlings own attacks and the number of Wyrmlings about, that should be pretty fair.

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  #53  
Old November 27th, 2012, 07:37 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Note, capping it to two damage makes _little_ difference....

damage done (capping at two damage)
A …… normal……on whiff only .. % reduction
1 …… 0.93 …… 0.60 …........… 35.1%
2 …… 0.62 …… 0.30 …........… 51.5%
3 …… 0.41 …… 0.15 …........… 63.4%
4 …… 0.27 …… 0.08 …........… 71.5%

As expected, it makes the bigger difference when the attacker rolls fewer dice. The probability of CS has not changed. Only the net damage.

My issue with this method. Against a standard 3 dice melee attack, it has only a 10% chance. That seems too low. And this applies if the damage is capped at two or not...

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  #54  
Old November 27th, 2012, 07:42 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnT2 View Post
Note, capping it to two damage makes _little_ difference....

damage done (capping at two damage)
A …… normal……on whiff only .. % reduction
1 …… 0.93 …… 0.60 …........… 35.1%
2 …… 0.62 …… 0.30 …........… 51.5%
3 …… 0.41 …… 0.15 …........… 63.4%
4 …… 0.27 …… 0.08 …........… 71.5%

As expected, it makes the bigger difference when the attacker rolls fewer dice. The probability of CS has not changed. Only the net damage.

My issue with this method. Against a standard 3 dice melee attack, it has only a 10% chance. That seems too low. And this applies if the damage is capped at two or not...
A little more than a ten percent chance.

It does seem too low, until you consider:
*The number of Green Wyrmlings that melee armies will have to kill
*The Green Wyrmlings own offensive output off two attacks of 4 each turn
*How many attacks a melee squad will have to make against Raelin-backed GWs to actually kill them.

I think 15%-17% of the time is a very reasonable amount--it will happen at least a few times in every game, and the attacker will think about it before attacking.

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  #55  
Old November 27th, 2012, 09:09 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

All these fancy ideas are nice and all, but they're deviating too far from the simplicity of Counter Strike, while all the other Fledglings keep close to mama/daddy's powers.

4 Move is a must, though.


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  #56  
Old November 27th, 2012, 10:01 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnT2 View Post
Hmmm, the numbers in your spreadsheet match mine - but above you have 10.138% for 4 defence - the spreadsheet has 10.03%.
The upper numbers are actually averaged random rolls. You can change the number of rolls, the number of dice and then select the roll the dice function from the calculator menu option.

Quote:
I also calculated the average damage. As above, this is the probability of counterstrike and the average damage. My worry was this latter would be too high. It's not.
Yeah, the chance of the whiff version of fcs happening is so low anyway...

Quote:
One thing - shouldn't the power read "vs normal attack"
And probably limited to adjacent attacks as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnT2 View Post
My issue with this method. Against a standard 3 dice melee attack, it has only a 10% chance. That seems too low. And this applies if the damage is capped at two or not...
I agree that it's very low. However, it would mean five defense is possible.
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  #57  
Old November 28th, 2012, 12:41 AM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedim Kabal View Post
Fledgling Counter Strike
When this Green Wyrmling is attacked, if the attacker rolls no skulls, all shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.
This is genius, I love it. Simple and probably not too powerful
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  #58  
Old November 28th, 2012, 07:09 AM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Considering these two the most:
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
After rolling defense dice, if excess shields are rolled, roll the 20-sided die. Add one to your roll for each shield rolled in the defense roll. If you roll an 18 or higher, inflict one wound on the attack figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch-vile View Post
That looks like a good starting point. I'd make it even simpler and go away with the adding to the roll:

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
After rolling defense dice, if excess shields are rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, inflict one wound on the attacking figure.

The die roll can be tweaked in playtesting.

I like the 16 or higher version (without a modifier for additional shields rolled by the fledging) the most because after considering the percentage of successfully rolling excessive defense dice, you then only have a 25% of inflicting the one counterstrike wound.

It seems fairly simple, and only a slightly modified version of Charos. I also think the defense needs to be 4 dice if the movement is 4 (even considering how they can gain height easier with FLYING.

So I envision:

LIFE 1
MOVE 4
RANGE 1
ATTACK 3 or 4
DEFENSE 4

FLEDGLING COUNTERSTRIKE
After rolling defense dice, if excess shields are rolled, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, inflict one wound on the attacking figure.

WYRMLING BONDING

FLYING

30 or 35 POINTS (depending on attack value)

*This is only based on the quick testing of: ROTV Raelin + 2 x Green Wyrmlings VS. Eldgrim + Tarn Vikings + 1 x Knights of Weston

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Last edited by 1moreheroscaper; November 28th, 2012 at 07:41 AM.
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  #59  
Old November 28th, 2012, 07:50 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Has anyone considered not putting bonding on his card? Without it, you can't get your all valiant figure defense bonus if your taking advantage of wyrmling bonding. And if your other wyrmlings are offed, then your only able to move 1 wyrmling at a time... which stops being as menacing.

Good luck on this guys

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  #60  
Old November 28th, 2012, 07:55 PM
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Re: Green Wyrmling discussion and playtesting

Wyrmling bonding is pretty essential to me. I think following precedent is vital here.
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