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  #49  
Old November 4th, 2022, 08:58 AM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Very cool. I dig the DW synergy.
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  #50  
Old November 4th, 2022, 12:59 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

7 range 5 attack or 3 range 8 attack is very strong. But with no multi-attack aside from Overextend Attack maybe 180 points is about right...

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  #51  
Old November 4th, 2022, 01:57 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Very cool. I dig the DW synergy.
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by caps View Post
7 range 5 attack or 3 range 8 attack is very strong. But with no multi-attack aside from Overextend Attack maybe 180 points is about right...
I wanted his stats to follow the Deathwalker pattern so it has one additional attack and defense from the prior model.
DW8K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 3, Defense 8
DW9K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 4, Defense 9
DW10K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 5, Defense 10

For a similar reason I wanted his points to be higher than DW9K at 140.

I thought the option for Overextend Attack would create a fun risk/reward decision when deciding to burn one of his Backup markers.

So there'd be three ways to use the markers while playing him.
- Cheerleader boosting other Deathwalkers
- Aggressive where you try to max out his offensive potential
- Conservative where you save the markers for defense
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  #52  
Old November 4th, 2022, 01:59 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

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Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by caps View Post
7 range 5 attack or 3 range 8 attack is very strong. But with no multi-attack aside from Overextend Attack maybe 180 points is about right...
I wanted his stats to follow the Deathwalker pattern so it has one additional attack and defense from the prior model.
DW8K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 3, Defense 8
DW9K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 4, Defense 9
DW10K... Move 5, Range 7, Attack 5, Defense 10

For a similar reason I wanted his points to be higher than DW9K at 140.

I thought the option for Overextend Attack would create a fun risk/reward decision when deciding to burn one of his Backup markers.

So there'd be three ways to use the markers while playing him.
- Cheerleader boosting other Deathwalkers
- Aggressive where you try to max out his offensive potential
- Conservative where you save the markers for defense
Oh nice, I didn't notice that pattern. Very cool. I look forward to hearing how he does in playtesting.

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  #53  
Old November 5th, 2022, 06:07 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Will your Metroid customs get brought here?

On Deathwalker10k:

I love Rain Death. Great name and power.

Redundant Systems looks broken to me. In a 1v1 single attack heroes without bonding/OM removal/wound outside of standard attack etc. will only be able to kill him on an initiative switch (from going second to going first) as long as you keep doing the conservative shark style of dumping all your OMs on him. So a single attack hero (Using Nilf without Greenscales at 185) would need to (starting on a round they lost initiative) consecutively (using Sisyphus’s Tables) so rounded to tenth of a percent :
0. Be in a round they lost initiative (if not their next 3 attacks do nothing provided DW10k has a Backup marker).
1. Beat 10 defense (33.9% chance with 6 attack). If they fail their next 2 attacks will do nothing (assuming they lose initiative and then the 3rd attack starts the combo again)
2. Win Initiative (50% chance). If they fail their next 2 attacks do nothing, then the combo starts again)
3. Beat 10 defense again (33.9% chance with 6 attack). If they fail on this step, their next 4 attacks will do nothing because they this round they don’t meet the prerequisite (0) and they will need an initiative switch back to losing initiative.

Best (without map based advantages) Backup marker case scenario (assuming 6 attack) on flat ground with you getting to attack on (a round you lost initiative) OM 3 you have a ~5.7% chance to kill him. After that you only get one ~5.7% chance every 1+ rounds. Will be kind of annoying to play against, and DW10k would win probably 85-90% of the time, even when the 1v1 starts at the worst possible time (assuming you’re playing conservatively and always putting a marker on him). DW10k is more hero killer than Nilf, but the odds even if an overall favorable situation for Nilf is too much. I tested this scenario with Jotun as well, who improves to ~14.5% per attempt (and +1 life).

Playtest in above scenario:
DW10k vs Nilf: 10 out of 10
DW10k vs Jotun: 8 out of 10

Sidenote: I never disengaged because range of 7 or 3 with Rain of Death means disengage to stall for time just makes things worse.

Back to theory, I suspect he would do very well against the Fen Hydra, as he could use his range of 7 to potentially get two attacks on the hydra if there was uneven terrain in the middle. Even if the Hydra advances to spot where that isn’t possible, threat range with rain of flame of 8 is better than the Hydra’s 7 so he start with an attack of 8 to probably knock off a head of two, then the hydra will struggle to get through on 2 or 3 remaining heads. I’m not sure about Q9. Krug would be very interesting, good chance of getting through but only for a short time.

I’m interested to see how he does against squads and counterstrike

Since I was just playing casually it was kind of fun when there was a chance for the combo. But it would probably have been annoying if I was trying to win. Of course 1v1 aren’t always the best, since certain abilities can’t be used and ignores other strategies. However, his extreme hero destructions would probably benefit from a bigger army. Run Zelrig/Braxas/Nilf out to kill as many squads as possible (Nilf might be the best bet since he could more effectively wound multi-attack heroes as well) then your opponents heroes and remaining squads will have to get really lucky.

Limiting redundant systems to once per round would probably fix it and make it a more challenging decision, if you don’t mind having 2 once per round abilities. Not sure what his points would be then.

Edit: one interesting thing though is that because the best way to kill him is a rush on OM 3 plus initiative, a wounded hero has closer than normal to the same chance as an unwounded hero.

Last edited by yamissflash; November 5th, 2022 at 06:43 PM.
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  #54  
Old November 5th, 2022, 06:55 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamissflash View Post
Will your Metroid customs get brought here?

On Deathwalker10k:

I love Rain Death. Great name and power.

Redundant Systems looks broken to me. In a 1v1 single attack heroes without bonding/OM removal/wound outside of standard attack etc. will only be able to kill him on an initiative switch (from going second to going first) as long as you keep doing the conservative shark style of dumping all your OMs on him. So a single attack hero (Using Nilf without Greenscales at 185) would need to (starting on a round they lost initiative) consecutively (using Sisyphusís Tables) so rounded to tenth of a percent :
0. Be in a round they lost initiative (if not their next 3 attacks do nothing provided DW10k has a Backup marker).
1. Beat 10 defense (33.9% chance with 6 attack). If they fail their next 2 attacks will do nothing (assuming they lose initiative and then the 3rd attack starts the combo again)
2. Win Initiative (50% chance). If they fail their next 2 attacks do nothing, then the combo starts again)
3. Beat 10 defense again (33.9% chance with 6 attack). If they fail on this step, their next 4 attacks will do nothing because they this round they donít meet the prerequisite (0) and they will need an initiative switch back to losing initiative.

Best (without map based advantages) Backup marker case scenario (assuming 6 attack) on flat ground with you getting to attack on (a round you lost initiative) OM 3 you have a ~5.7% chance to kill him. After that you only get one ~5.7% chance every 1+ rounds. Will be kind of annoying to play against, and DW10k would win probably 85-90% of the time, even when the 1v1 starts at the worst possible time (assuming youíre playing conservatively and always putting a marker on him). DW10k is more hero killer than Nilf, but the odds even if an overall favorable situation for Nilf is too much. I tested this scenario with Jotun as well, who improves to ~14.5% per attempt (and +1 life).

Playtest in above scenario:
DW10k vs Nilf: 10 out of 10
DW10k vs Jotun: 8 out of 10

Sidenote: I never disengaged because range of 7 or 3 with Rain of Death means disengage to stall for time just makes things worse.

Back to theory, I suspect he would do very well against the Fen Hydra, as he could use his range of 7 to potentially get two attacks on the hydra if there was uneven terrain in the middle. Even if the Hydra advances to spot where that isnít possible, threat range with rain of flame of 8 is better than the Hydraís 7 so he start with an attack of 8 to probably knock off a head of two, then the hydra will struggle to get through on 2 or 3 remaining heads. Iím not sure about Q9. Krug would be very interesting, good chance of getting through but only for a short time.

Iím interested to see how he does against squads and counterstrike

Since I was just playing casually it was kind of fun when there was a chance for the combo. But it would probably have been annoying if I was trying to win. Of course 1v1 arenít always the best, since certain abilities canít be used and ignores other strategies. However, his extreme hero destructions would probably benefit from a bigger army. Run Zelrig/Braxas/Nilf out to kill as many squads as possible (Nilf might be the best bet since he could more effectively wound multi-attack heroes as well) then your opponents heroes and remaining squads will have to get really lucky.

Limiting redundant systems to once per round would probably fix it and make it a more challenging decision, if you donít mind having 2 once per round abilities. Not sure what his points would be then.

Edit: one interesting thing though is that because the best way to kill him is a rush on OM 3 plus initiative, a wounded hero has closer than normal to the same chance as an unwounded hero.
I would love to port over the Metroid customs at some point. I'm trying to only post stuff here that I can build cards for. I don't have any figures for the Metroid stuff other than a poorly painted Samus proxy. My plan in the near future is to pickup a resin 3d printer and then find some 3d models to use for Samus, Metroid, Space Pirates, etc.

Thank you for detailed competitive analysis of the DW10K design. I'm absolutely open to modifying the Redundant Systems power if it's broken or not fun to play against. I'd also considered capping the wound cancellation of the backup marker to just a single wound instead of one or more wounds.

I'm hoping to try testing out some stuff tomorrow when I can put together a board.
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  #55  
Old November 5th, 2022, 08:31 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Yammisflash raises a great point... Deathwalker10k is basically invincible 1 on 1 against a single attacking figure.

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  #56  
Old November 7th, 2022, 01:10 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

I love any attempt at making Dathwalkers worth their points, and your dw10k is very neat!

I would be tempted to make the the backup markers have a set pool at the beginning of the game that doesn't refill. Strengthening the matchup against squads/multi attack, and lessening the near invincibility against single attackers.

Still let it be used on other Deathwalkers, but maybe within a short distance so you're not restricting yourself to a tight clump formation.

Also love your templates! Very well done!
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  #57  
Old November 7th, 2022, 01:32 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Quote:
Originally Posted by blast_shark View Post
I love any attempt at making Dathwalkers worth their points, and your dw10k is very neat!

I would be tempted to make the the backup markers have a set pool at the beginning of the game that doesn't refill. Strengthening the matchup against squads/multi attack, and lessening the near invincibility against single attackers.

Still let it be used on other Deathwalkers, but maybe within a short distance so you're not restricting yourself to a tight clump formation.

Also love your templates! Very well done!
Hey thanks!

It was intended to only come with 3 backup markers. I thought there was precedent from original Heroscape cards to not state this number explicitly in the text, but in digging around I think all the designs with markers tell you the number in the power. The Redundant Systems power needs some work. I've got a few ideas on how to fix the design but I'll need to make room on the card. Probably means Overextend Attack needs to be dropped.
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  #58  
Old November 7th, 2022, 02:15 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Here's the iteration of DW10K I'll test this evening.
- Dropped Overextend Attack to make room for text
- Move the Rain Death ability to the top of the card so it doesn't get lost beneath all the text from Redundant Systems
- Made Redundant Systems once per round ability and explicitly states 3 markers now



If this still feels broken with the current changes I'll look at:
A. Backup markers only block one damage, not one or more damage
B. Give him a negative ability that lowers his defense value for each figure he's engaged with (try to stave off the broken 1v1 hero match up some), could call it Sensor Overload or something similar
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  #59  
Old November 7th, 2022, 05:13 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Great design.
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  #60  
Old November 10th, 2022, 08:02 PM
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Re: Good Pig's Cabinet of Curiosities - NEW Deathwalker 10,0

Interested to hear how the playtest went. Dropping overextend seems like a good idea. Using redundant systems to disengage to set up Rain Death already offers an aggressive option (less versatile but also more creative).
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