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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #121  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 05:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

We're going to need to finish this guy sharpish - where are we here?


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  #122  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 05:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

Ericth sent me a PM saying he'd have it in this week. Not sure when. So it may be a close finish.

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  #123  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 05:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

Not sure I like relying on a Public Tester on something this close... they're notoriously unreliable at times.


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  #124  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 05:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

We've got Ronin signed up as well, and all of my games and Yoda's games looked good and balanced. So I'm not too worried about it as long as Ronin finishes his we should be good to move forward regardless. He's 1-4(though his points have been dropped after 2 of the losses), so even if Ronin comes back with 2 wins, we're looking good to just modify some points if need be.

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  #125  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 07:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

I'm running him tonight.

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  #126  
Old October 22nd, 2018, 11:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Ash Williams @150 points

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Ash Williams, Captain Britain, Witchblade, Angel (Warren) (850) vs Enchantress (II), Wonder Woman (I), Rhino (850)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Ash Williams, Captain America, Iron Man (Avengers), Yellowjacket (II) (850) vs Ms. Marvel, N'astirh, Shadowcat (II), Hellfire: Fireball x2 (850)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Ash is fun - he can be pretty nasty against the figures he counters (kind of a glass cannon vibe), and introducing more of those as enemies is an interesting twist for a figure like this. It's not reliable enough to make him feel busted with other anti-demon types, though.

I think he feels okay at 150. He has the potential for big impact on a match for that point level, but he's not always gonna be a big deal, and he's a bit fragile to tangle with heavies.

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  #127  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 07:50 AM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

Thanks for the tests! Closeish win and loss. 2-5 overall, 2-3 at 150. Looking good.

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  #128  
Old October 24th, 2018, 01:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericth74
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Ash Williams
Army Test
Map: Ruins of Heroes Past
Units: 850pts - Ash, Buffy, Bane, Punisher, Robin(120) vs Jason Voorhees, Fire Demons, Living Mummy, Lurker x3, Walkers x3

Game 1:
Normal Attack Damage:
R1T1 Lurker1 5 wounds dead +1 dice Bane/ -1 def Evil Dead
R1T1 Walker1 2 wounds dead +1 dice Bane/ -1 def Evil Dead
R3T2 Jason 3 wounds +1 dice Bane/ -1 def Evil Dead
R3T2 Jason Miss +1 dice Bane/ -1 def Evil Dead
R4T1 Fire Demon#4 miss x2 +1 dice Bane/ -1 def Evil Dead


EVIL DEAD
Used 6 times

CHAINSAW SPECIAL ATTACK
Used one time: R5T1 Fire Demon#1 1 wound/dead 2 blanks rolled, no bonus

ARMY OF DARKNESS
Rolled 4 times, all unsuccessful



Recap

Round 1: Lurker1 moves 1st, engaging Punisher, and giving him 1 wound. Walker1 also engages Punisher giving him a second wound. Walker2 engages Buffy and misses, Lurker2 misses Buffy and Lurker3 moves. Ash attacks Lurker1 and Walker
1 from range killing both. 3 attacks from zombies all miss Buffy, Ash and Punisher. Buffy using Slayer Training to attack all 3 zombies engaged with her killing Lurker2 and Lurker3. After Jason moves Punisher takes a turn after taking an unblockable wound from a walker he uses his Assault Rifle to kill the remaining Walkers. End of round Ash rolls a 14 for Army of Darkness.


Round 2: Fire Demons move out as well as Ash. Fire Demons move to engage both Robin and Punisher both missing. Buffy engages Fire Demon3 and Fire Demon4 attacks both with Slayer Training killing Fire Demon4. Bane kills Fire Demon3.
End of round Ash rolls 16. Fire Demons roll 15 to bring one back to life.


Round 3: Buffy uses Crossbow Special Attack to kill Fire Demon2. Jason attacks Buffy giving her 1 wound. Ash attacks Jason from range giving him 3 wounds with 1 attack and missing the 2nd attack. Jason attacks Buffy again missing. Punisher attacks Jason 3 times using Assault Rifle giving him 3 more wounds killing him. Robin kills Fire Demon1.
End of round rolls:
Ash 14 - nothing
Jason 20 - comes back
Fire Demons 11 - nothing


Round 4: After Jason moves, Ash shoots at Fire Demon4 from range missing twice. After a miss by Jason, Buffy kills the last Fire Demon. Jason takes a leaving engagement wound from Punisher then takes 5 more wounds over 3 attacks by Punishers Assault Rifle. Robin gives Living Mummy a wound from Range.
End of round rolls:
Ash 18 - nothing
Jason 5 - nothing
Fire Demons 16 - 1 comes back


Round 5: Ash uses Chainsaw Special Attack on the returned Fire Demon killing it. (2 blanks rolled, no bonus. Fire Demon rolled 7 dice, all skulls!) Living Mummy uses Prehensile Bandage on Ash, attacks him giving him 3 wounds. Buffy misses Mummy with 2 Crossbow shots. Mummy attacks and kills Ash.

Rounds 6 and 7: Living Mummys Undead Resilience is proving to be very strong, negating many wounds. Mummy kills Buffy in round 6, while only taking 1 wound. In round 7 Mummy kills Robin but finally goes down to Punisher.

Side note - I've never used Living Mummy before, wow he is strong, very tough to bring down!



Who won? Ash's team
List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):
Bane full(6 life)
Punisher 2 life left



-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Army Test
Map: Ruins of Heroes Past
Units: 800pts Ash, Buffy, Captain America(C3G), Bucky and Falcon vs Firefly, Jason Voorhees, Dr Octopus, Solomon Grundy

Game 2:
Normal Attack Damage:
R4T1 Jason miss +1Capt/-1Def dice Evil Dead
R4T1 Jason 2 wounds +1Capt/-1Def dice Evil Dead
R5T1 Jason 1 wound +1Capt/-1Def dice Evil Dead

EVIL DEAD
Used 1 time

CHAINSAW SPECIAL ATTACK
Used 2 times
R2T3 Jason 3 skulls rolled - killed Jason
R3T2 Jason 1 skull rolled no blanks - 1 wound on Jason


ARMY OF DARKNESS
Rolled 4 times successful 2 times turning Dr Ock and Jason into Deadites. But no dead to bring back to life.




Recap:

A pretty one sided match

Round 1: After some moving around Buffy put 3 wounds on Jason. Not much else.
Ash rolls an 8, turns Dr. Octopus into a Deadite


Round 2: Jason puts a wound on Ash. Capt America Shield throws at Jason and Dr Ock giving them each a wound. Bucky follows giving Jason another wound. Solomon Grundy give Buffy 3 wounds, but goes down to Buffy the next turn taking 4 wounds. He never returns with bad rolls. Ash finishes off Jason with his Chainsaw.
Ash rolls an 18 - nothing
Jason rolls a 20 - he's back!


Round 3: Buffy kills Dr Ock, with help from him being turned into a Deadite/Demon. Ash gives Jason another wound from his Chainsaw. Firefly takes 3 wounds from Cap and Bucky.
Ash rolls a 10 - nothing


Round 4: Ash puts 2 more wounds on Jason and Buffy does the same to him. Jason gives Ash another wound. Cap kills Firefly.
Ash rolls a 6 - Jason is now a Deadite/demon


Round 5: Ash gives Jason his final wound.

I thought this would be a closer game but Solomon Grundy died fast and never came back.


Who won? Ash and Co.

List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):

Captain America full 5 life
Falcon full 4 life
Bucky 1 life left
Buffy 4 life left
Ash 3 life left



THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: At 150 points Ash is a solid unit. Even in match-ups without Undead/Demons he can turn them into Deadites to still get his Evil Dead bonus. Unlike Buffy who needs them to go from good to great. In my two games I didn't have anyone come back to life from Army of darkness. Using Ash with Buffy and podding up with Bane or getting a boost from Capt America is very useful for him, going from a 4/4 to a 5/5 big especially against the undead.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Ash is a lot of fun. If I had to find a weakness it would be his Chainsaw attack. Double skulls are great if you roll right but if normal attacking a demon/undead/slasher you get a 2nd attack, at a range of 4, against 1 less defense dice. Add in an attack boost and/or height and there aren't a lot of situations where I would pick the Chainsaw over a normal attack. Not sure what the fix would be for it though.
Not entirely surprising that he won both games. His teams had synergy with boosters whereas the enemy team was a bit more hodge-podge. He also said he never had an ally resurrected, so that helps in his favor.

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  #129  
Old October 24th, 2018, 01:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Public Playtesting)

He's:
0-1 at 165
0-1 at 160
4-3 at 150. 2 of the 4 wins he seemed to go up against inferior armies, and overall got lucky based on the write up. I'm feeling pretty happy with moving forward at 150.

I propose a vote to move to Final Editing at 150.

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  #130  
Old October 24th, 2018, 02:13 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Vote for Final Editing)

I wouldn't say the armies were really that inferior, just that he was one of the few to run test against Ash's planned targets. I realize he has the ability to turn someone into his prey once a round but I was surprised that there were so few default Demons, Slashers, or Undead figures in his opposing army.

Granted I just skimmed through the tests but it feels a bit odd to criticize a public tester for running a test against Ash's intended opponents and then call those armies inferior. Is he suppose to dominate Demon's, Slashers, and Undead figures? If so that's fine as it appears that is what he does. If I'm misunderstanding some context here forgive me.

Having said that I don't really have an issue with this guy or his cost. He seems fairly straight forward with about as much downside as upside.

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  #131  
Old October 24th, 2018, 02:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Vote for Final Editing)

150 seems formidable. Yea to FE.

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  #132  
Old October 24th, 2018, 02:38 PM
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Re: The Book of Ash Williams (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
feels a bit odd to criticize a public tester for running a test against Ash's intended opponents and then call those armies inferior.
I don't believe I did. I certainly don't expect a new tester to craft ultra competitive armies. I simply pointed out that Ash's team had synergy, whereas the other team did not. So the result was not surprising, especially when you look at the breakdown of how the games played out.

I wasn't saying the choices were bad, I said they were inferior by comparison.

Ash, Buffy, Bane, Punisher, Robin
vs.
Jason Voorhees, Fire Demons, Living Mummy, Lurker x3, Walkers x3

Ash, Buffy, Captain America(C3G), Bucky and Falcon
vs.
Firefly, Jason Voorhees, Dr Octopus, Solomon Grundy

In these instances, you have Bane/Cap(while also comboing nicely with Bucky) providing a boost to the team. What synergy do the opponents have? Ash's AoD special becomes purely negative when you pit him and Buffy up against an entire team who they already do well against without needing them to be Demons, such as in game 1.

I've ran games in my earlier days of testing where one team was clearly built competitively and the other was not, and people explained to me that that's not ideal as it gives one team an obvious advantage. It happens, and I don't think me pointing that out here is criticizing the tester.

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