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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #13  
Old February 13th, 2019, 03:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

Hmm... maybe just:

SHAOLIN FIRE

Liu Kang never takes leaving engagement attacks, and may attack with his normal attack up to 2 times at any point before, during, or after his normal move as long as he is on a space where he could end his movement. When attacking with Liu Kang's normal attack, count each blank rolled as 2 additional skulls, if you roll a blank, you may immediately move the defending figure up to two spaces if it is Small or Medium. The defending figure never receives leaving engagement attacks and may not end this movement adjacent to Liu Kang.

Allows him to knock people back and lets the following them simply be represented by him being able to attack at any point before, after or during movement.


EDIT: Still had some artifact text from the last version. Fixed now.


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  #14  
Old February 13th, 2019, 05:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I'm not too keen on the additional knockback on the kicks. If you knockback a figure, you can't attack them again without at least using more movement from Liu Kang. I also feel it would detract from the hallmark of the card being the dragon bite. The idea for the power is pretty cool, but I think it could be served better in another design rather than here. Might be worth caching in the Powers Without Figures thread.

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  #15  
Old February 13th, 2019, 05:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I honestly feel like Liu Kang would be missing something if one of his most iconic moves had no representation at all. I wouldn't feel happy with that, and the Bicycle Kick kind of feels more important than the dragon, to me.
Also, the knockback is optional here - you don't have to use it, but you could easily use it to knock someone to lower ground so that Liu could get an attack bonus for his second hit.


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  #16  
Old February 13th, 2019, 06:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I don't think the knock back bit is necessary to include the power. If we want it represented, you can do that without the knock back part.

The Dragon is the game's logo, to be fair. So i'd say it's pretty iconic. Both the Bicycle Kick and the Dragon finisher were introduced in MK2 and he's had them both in just about every single game.

Maybe this?
Quote:
CHAMPION OF EARTHREALM
If at least two Order Markers are on this card, Liu Kang adds 1 to his Attack number, and all friendly figures within clear sight of Liu Kang add 1 to their Defense.

SHAOLIN FIRE
When Liu Kang attacks with his normal attack, count each blank rolled as 2 additional skulls, and he may attack one additional time, using either his normal or special attack.

BICYCLE KICK SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 2.
Liu Kang can attack the same figure up to 4 times with this special attack.

ENTER THE DRAGON
Instead of attacking, you may choose an adjacent figure with up to 2 Life remaining and roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 19 or higher, the chosen figure is destroyed.
Removed:
Dual Class
Movement on Shaolin Fire

Altered:
Made the Dragon attempt instead of attacking, to add to his choice on how to use the 2nd attack.
Upped the Dragon roll requirement, but made it usable more than once.

Added:
Bicycle Kick Special Attack that can be used instead of the 2nd normal attack or Dragon attack. Capped at 4 attacks of 2 each.

Tried to simplify everything. We can always drop his defense from 6 to 5 if he's coming in too hot, or limit the Bicycle Kick to 3 attacks? Thoughts? Anyone in favor of that? Opposed? Alternative suggestions?
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  #17  
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

Kind of surprised by the pushback to the knockback on Bicycle Kick - that's what made it really stand out to me watching gameplay vids, that's what made it feel distinct from Chun-Li's Lightning Kick to compare it with a character from a different game. Still, I do feel a lot better with BK on here.
I have to say, though... I'm not sure when I'd ever go for Enter the Dragon as a 10% chance to inflict, at most, two wounds. I'm just never going to use that as is.


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  #18  
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Kind of surprised by the pushback to the knockback on Bicycle Kick - that's what made it really stand out to me watching gameplay vids, that's what made it feel distinct from Chun-Li's Lightning Kick to compare it with a character from a different game. Still, I do feel a lot better with BK on here.
I have to say, though... I'm not sure when I'd ever go for Enter the Dragon as a 10% chance to inflict, at most, two wounds. I'm just never going to use that as is.
Against a figure that's hard to wound? I'm open to dialing the number where it needs to be.
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  #19  
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Kind of surprised by the pushback to the knockback on Bicycle Kick - that's what made it really stand out to me watching gameplay vids, that's what made it feel distinct from Chun-Li's Lightning Kick to compare it with a character from a different game. Still, I do feel a lot better with BK on here.
I have to say, though... I'm not sure when I'd ever go for Enter the Dragon as a 10% chance to inflict, at most, two wounds. I'm just never going to use that as is.
Against a figure that's hard to wound? I'm open to dialing the number where it needs to be.
I'd still probably try to go for multiple attacks in the hope that one of them gets through. Either way, my odds aren't good - may as well try not-good odds a few more times. It feels like a non-power now that'll basically never trigger. I much preferred your previous iteration of giving it a 25% chance but only allowing you to use it once - that felt intimidating but, since the target would already need to be close to dead, not that much, almost akin to Bane's Back Breaker or Final Ruin.


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  #20  
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I'm willing to see what others would prefer before moving forward.
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  #21  
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

Definitely like dropping the dual-class. I think the stacking multi-attack clauses (in the SA and in Shaolin Fire) are confusing in that last draft, though.

I could see using that version of Enter the Dragon on certain figures for sure. (Especially if the intent is that he can use it a couple times in a turn whenever he would use his normal - if so, then going for it twice in one turn means he really has more like a 19% chance of pulling it off in any given turn)

It's still a bit of a niche thing, but the theme feels strong to me that way - it's very much a last-ditch finishing move and it's most apt to come out when both Liu Kang and his opponent are on their last legs, and the enemy has some nasty defensive power Liu Kang's trying to get around. Being a dragon > Rock Wall Defense 4.

I'm not really clear on what a Bicycle Kick even is or how important it is to the character, so it's hard to weigh in on that side of things.
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  #22  
Old February 13th, 2019, 10:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I'm in agreeance with Ronin that it is confusing how many times you would get to attack in a turn if you used a normal attack and then Bicycle Kick. I prefer the SP version of Enter the Dragon and wouldn't mind the roll being even lower (14, 13, 12, IMO it should feel like he won't get locked out of the kill for too long) since it's once per game and only hits 2 life points. It's not terribly likely for there to be multiple hard-to-wound figures in the opposing army who comes across Liu Kang with 2 or fewer life left in a single game, so the reusable one suffers from lost cause fallacy and I don't feel I would go for it much (similar to LO's analysis).

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  #23  
Old February 13th, 2019, 10:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

I disagree. I like the new combo of powers, it feels like Liu Kang. The only thing I might tweak is making him commit to a normal attack or special attack. Enter the Dragon could always take the place of the second normal attack and becomes more of an option if 4 attacks with Bicycle Kick isn't an option at that point.

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  #24  
Old February 13th, 2019, 10:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Liu Kang (Breathing)

If we commit to 2 normals, 1 normal and a dragon bite, 2 dragon bites, or the special attacks, should we maybe bump the special attack to 4 attacks of 3, or 3 attacks of 3? Or make it work like the Flash’s where you can choose how many dice, 1-3, until you’ve used all 8 or 9?
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