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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #61  
Old June 10th, 2018, 02:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Thanks for the tests!

I'd be interested in who wins 1 on 1 fights between the two, based on your comparisons. I'd give Kitana's setup the edge personally, but it seems you're thinking the other way around.

Regardless, I would gladly see her points drop to the 170-175 range if playtesting warrants it. That's what I estimated her thematic value at, so I'd rather see it go closer to that than go up. We'll see what other results entail.
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  #62  
Old June 10th, 2018, 04:18 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Thanks for the tests!

I'd be interested in who wins 1 on 1 fights between the two, based on your comparisons. I'd give Kitana's setup the edge personally, but it seems you're thinking the other way around.

Regardless, I would gladly see her points drop to the 170-175 range if playtesting warrants it. That's what I estimated her thematic value at, so I'd rather see it go closer to that than go up. We'll see what other results entail.
Even if they're evenly matched or Kitana has a slight edge 1-1, which wouldn't surprise me that much, then I'd still say bringing her in at Karai's points level was a bit high - I'd say about 10 Points of Karai's cost accounts for how major a boon Ninja Leadership is for a swarmy Foot/Hand army, a support effect Kitana has no equivalent for.


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  #63  
Old June 17th, 2018, 06:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
(Also, strictly speaking, when you're building around Star-Lord, you're not usually looking for an Assassin in particular - you're just looking for someone that isn't any of the classes you've already got in your army, so the search is broader than that)
This is generally true - most of the time if you're considering Kitana with Star-Lord, you're comparing her to things like Speedball or Bug or Blade.

An important caveat to the above is that when you can smuggle in some class/species synergies (especially bonding) into a Star-Lord build it can be powerful. In this case the only solid Star-Lord eligible synergies she has are humans (Masahiro and Kingpin). There's a long list of human figures that allow for multiple turns in S-L builds - Amanda Waller, Bucky, Kingpin, Masahiro, Iron Man Mk5, The Hood, Two Face 2, Yukio, Casey Jones, Robin (Damian/Dick), Mad Thinker. It's common enough that it's not a major concern.

The flip side to the above point is that bonding in a Star-Lord build that doesn't eat the human slot (Rover, Robot, Zombie, Harley Quinn, MM2) is rare; these are the ones where you definitely want to test with S-L.

Last edited by Ronin; March 6th, 2019 at 12:15 PM. Reason: keeping some design details secret
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  #64  
Old June 24th, 2018, 01:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Any army recommendations here? I would like to do some public playtesting this week, and Kitana is the oldest unit up to bat that doesn't have a lot of tests already in the works.

EDIT: Also, I've been seeing a lot of playtests coming through with extremely small sized games (350-600 points). Is this normal now? The last time I heavily playtested, around 1000 was super standard for all testing, and we never dipped below 750 for pretty much anything.

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  #65  
Old June 24th, 2018, 02:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Depends on the figure. For the lower point figures, lower point armies are much better.
It is easy to lose the effectiveness of a low point figure in big games. The 300+ figures really need the bigger games to have the points to build around them.

I generally shoot for around 600-1000 myself.

I would try at least one match with a Hand Ninja build.
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  #66  
Old June 24th, 2018, 02:38 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

I'm generally shooting for smaller tests when I can both to keep it more focussed and so I can better find the time! There are certainly plenty of times when larger games are needed, but a lot of the time, I like to go smaller. I sometimes run one game at a smaller level to follow it up with a 1,000 range game.


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  #67  
Old June 24th, 2018, 02:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

I usually like to run at least ~450? Any smaller than that, and I worry about whether I'm diverging too much from typical battle conditions. Generally, though, my advice is to go as small as you can while still allowing the possibility for the unit to work at its peak effectiveness. That way, it's easier to isolate the effect the test unit is having.
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  #68  
Old June 24th, 2018, 09:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Here we are! Please see my end notes for some questions about wording and intent, and my thoughts on her in general.
Quote:
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Kitana

Army Test
Map: Kaltengeist
Units: Kitana (185), Lady Shiva, Huntress, Hand Ninja x2 (700) vs. Amazon Warriors x2, Wonder Girl, Wonder Woman II (710)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Kaltengeist
Units: Kitana (185), Bullseye, Ra's al Ghul, Boomerang, Merlyn, Elite League Assassins (1000) vs. Frankenstein, Ursa Major, Abomination C3G (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: (fill in here)

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: My testing raised two interesting questions. Firstly, Steel Fan Assault is worded in such a way that Kitana can attack an adjacent figure, kill it, then proceed to use her second attack at range. Is this intended? I played with this ruling.

Secondly, I am not sure, but Stealth Combat and Steel Fan Assault together seem to suggest that Kitana can attack once, move, then attack again. Is this intended? I did NOT play with this ruling.

Kitana is fun! She has extreme depth despite seeming to be simple at face value. There are a lot of intricacies and options with her that I did not initially realize looking at the card. Fan Lift was only attempted twice and did not hit either time, but it's mere presence encourages her kiting strategy. In both games, particularly the second, she was effective, and I was surprised at by how much in Game 2. She seems really close, but perhaps a 5-15 point bump would do her good.

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  #69  
Old June 24th, 2018, 10:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Thanks for the tests! Appreciated!

The first attack has to be in melee, then she can attack again from melee or range. Doesn't have to be against the same figure, and she can definitely move after the first and/or second attack. Basically, she can expend her full movement at any point. This allows her to hit in melee, then from range, hoping to get the opponent to re-engage her making Fan Lift possible again.
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  #70  
Old June 25th, 2018, 12:47 AM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Public Playtest)

Looking over the tests, I'm pretty happy with her finishing at 185. I think with her going 2-2 after the drop in life, and in her most dominant win, it looks like she wasn't the biggest factor that led to the win. With 1 tester suggesting a small point drop, and another suggesting a small point raise, I feel with both sets combined, 185 feels reasonable as-is.

I propose a vote to move Kitana to Final Editing.
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Last edited by Arkham; June 26th, 2018 at 10:39 AM.
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  #71  
Old June 25th, 2018, 02:45 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Vote for Final Editing)

yea
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  #72  
Old June 25th, 2018, 03:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Kitana (Vote for Final Editing)

Yea
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