Su-Bak-Na vs. Sir Dupuis

[theodorelogan]

Comparison

Points
Su-Bak-Na:160
Sir Dupuis: 150

Slight advantage to Sir Dupuis

Move:
Su-Bak-Na: 6 (with flying)
Sir Dupuis: 8

Slight advantage to Su-Bak-Na (IMO

Attack
Su-Bak-Na: 7 (easy to get height)
Sir Dupuis: 4 (possibility of up to 7...harder to get height for non-flying double base)

Advantage to Su-Bak-Na

Defense
Su-Bak-Na: 3
Sir Dupuis: 3 (for if 4 or more wounds)

Slight advantage to Sir Dupuis

Life
Su-Bak-Na: 5
Sir Dupuis: 6

Advantage to Sir Dupuis

Specials

Sir Dupuis: Tactical disengaement....70% of not taking a disengagement strike....possibly useful for a low defense figure like him

Su-Bak-Na: +1 to all Marro rolls. We all know that is very useful.

Bonding with Nagrubs. VERY USEFUL.

Summary
Dupuis is 10 points less, has one more life, 2 more movement, can have one more defense if severly wounded, and has a 15% of taking a disengagement hit

Subakna has flying, guaranteed 7 attack, adss +1 to all marro rolls, and has a squads that bonds with AND heals him.

For me, the movement is pretty much a wash. The guaranteed 7 attack for Su-Bak-Na more than makes up for the 10 points, 1 life, possible 1 defense, and disengagement (which are all marginal bonuses IMO). And that is without counting the +1 to marro rolls and the Nagrubs.

Why should I pick Sir Dupuis? Is the disengage ability really going to be that useful. It seems like Su-Bak-Na does what Sir Dupuis does, but better.

[HeroscapeRulz]

Well, let's say someone is on the glyph of wind, cancling flying. Sir Dupis has his three knights he needs, getting his three mor attack. they both are down to 2 life. Sir dupis now has 7 attack 4 deffense, you see where I'm going?

Plus let's say you didn't have any Marro that needed Su-Bak-Na's ability.

In my mind Sir Dupis is just a bit better.

[HeroscapeRulz]

I hope that helps you with your decision.
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[hextr1p]

I think your comparison may be a little skewed...

You can also look at it this way:

Do I want to draft a Marro army, or do I want to draft a knight/valiant army?

Who would be more valuable in each of those specific builds?

Sure, if the two were going up against each other as single units, the point differential might be more obvious. However, there are MANY other factors to take into consideration when determining the point cost of a hero or squad outside of stats and powers on their army card.

[HeroscapeRulz]

Originally Posted by hextr1p

You can also look at it this way:

Do I want to draft a Marro army, or do I want to draft a knight/valiant army?

Who would be more valuable in each of those specific builds?

Yes, that's also a great deal of the argument. Also, "What is the point amount in you are playing by?"

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Not only that, but this "forgets" about Chalice of Fortitude and Knight's Courage. Su-Bak-Na might be better (I think he is), but at least make it a fair comparison.

[theGuru]

Sir Dupuis FTW

[Gomolka]

Originally Posted by theGuru

Sir Dupuis FTW

theGuru has spoken... quote for truth!

I think that Dupuis has much more going for him, and a greater playability in most cases. Su-Bak-Na's effect only gives the roll amount a +1 for Marro/Wulsinu, however I really can only see this playing a dominant role in a Marro Drones army. Some other units can benefit from it, but it only will have any use 5% of the time, and at only one value in the dice roll. As opposed to Cyprien, who is benefitted from a dice roll enhancement through many numbers, resulting in many possible changes in attack power for his Special Attack.

I honestly have only used Su-Bak-Na once or twice in huge games with General Themed battles. He provided as a pretty decent cheerleader and end-of-game unit, however I really haven't seen much game time from him since. I have used the Templar Knights multiple times, and with Sir Dupuis coming out, I only see more playability from the Knights and Dupuis. Although expensive, get this combo into your opponents area, and they will have a hard time getting them out. The Sir Dupuis/Templar Knights combo, in my opinion, has the potential to take out much more of their point value than a combination of Su-Bak-Na and friends.

Unless, of course, you are running around with Su-Bak-Na and 10 sets of Marro Stingers. That's just another story.

[sachsen]

Why compare these two particular units? They have completely different uses, strengths, weaknesses and abilities. If ever there was a case of apples and oranges, this would be it.

[Aldin]

theodorelogan,

Just as the WoB are likely to somewhat "redeem" Khosumet, I've noticed that the Nagrubs have somewhat redeemed SBN. In a lot of ways I think that being an object of inexpensive bonding/healing, though unmentioned in your list, is perhaps the greatest differentiator between the two. As mentioned above, they have very different flavors and purposes and I would tend to choose the one appropriate to my army - Sir Dupuis for my knights and SBN for my Marro. I do like how your comparison highlights the similarities between the two in that I would love for some of the excitement over Sir Dupuis to bleed over into a favorite underutilized figure of mine.

~Aldin, waking up in the middle of the night to post

[Hero Hot Hatch]

If the question were which one would I like to be, the answer would be Sir Dupuis. I could fly if I were Su-Bak-Na, but riding on a horse with a sword, armor and all might help get dates. Su-bak-na's dragon ride will eat my dates.

All kidding aside, I don't care if Su-bak-na has the edge due to flying or bonding, Sir Dupuis will see more action from me than Su-bak-na regardless. In my book, Sir Dupuis has the thematic awesomeness that I like and the stats. are secondary.

I can see where you are coming from in the comparison given the closeness in point value. However, they aren't substitutes to each other. Like others wrote above, I can't see anyone drafting Su-bak-Na in the same army as a couple squads of 4th Mass.

I would, however, consider a comparison threat between Moriko and the NotNW. They are both ninja units and they are both worth 110. Actually, I'll start a thread and link it here as soon as I do.

[theodorelogan]

Not only that, but this "forgets" about Chalice of Fortitude and Knight's Courage. Su-Bak-Na might be better (I think he is), but at least make it a fair comparison.

I didn't forget about them.

Su-Bak-Na: 7 (easy to get height)
Sir Dupuis: 4 (possibility of up to 7...harder to get height for non-flying double base)

Defense
Su-Bak-Na: 3
Sir Dupuis: 3 (four if 4 or more wounds)

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Do I want to draft a Marro army, or do I want to draft a knight/valiant army?

I would take Su-Bak-Na in either army, which was kind of the point of this post.

Why compare these two particular units? They have completely different uses, strengths, weaknesses and abilities. If ever there was a case of apples and oranges, this would be it.

Because they are so similar. I don't see that they are much different at all, personally. I see that Su-Bak-Na always has 7 attack, and that Dupuis has a 15% chance of disengaging without a wound, compared to Su-Bak-Na's 50%

THey don't seem that different at all to me. But that was the point of my post.

What are the different uses. What is Sir Dupuis good for that I would use him over Su-Bak-Na. As of right now, I can't think of a circumstance where I would rather have Dupuis.