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  #73  
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:18 PM
Billtrumpet25 Billtrumpet25 is offline
 
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
And the kickoff...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wytefang View Post
One other solution to the annoying over-reliance on luck in the game design, is to house-rule all the lame, unreliable special powers utilizing D20 rolls. Just make powers that are supremely potent a one-shot or limited use deal. Works really well and you get results that match the abilities of the players rather than the random results of the dice.
...then the return...
Quote:
Whatcha gonna do? You fix the game! At least it worked for my issues with it, anyway.
...and now, the punt...
Quote:
Well I'm not going so far as to say it's "broken" - my use of the word "fix" was only intended to refer to a specific aspect of the game that I feel needs improving.
I wonder at the reason one would invest heavily in a game that they didn't like the design of, but hey, who am I to question you. My point is that the overwhelming majority of players like the randomness. Yeah, some people complain (as I have) about it, but at the end of the day, it's part of the game that leads to exciting moments, death-defying rolls, and bitter losses. It's what makes Heroscape, Heroscape.

Quote:
and removes the annoyance of making some clever tactical decisions on the battlefield only to have your special ability randomly not work.
"clever tactical decisions", huh? So the game is without clever tactical decisions? If you KNOW something is going to work, it's not all that clever. It's predictable. Imagine Atlaga if you knew, 100% of the time, that you'd get the kill. How about Chilling Touch? THAT, my friend, breaks the game.

Quote:
As I see it, having a randomly-activated special ability would be like playing Unreal Tournament and having your gun's secondary powerful ability just randomly jam every once in a while.
I'm sure no soldier has ever faced a weapon jam in the heat of combat. Oh, wait, it's the reason Glocks and Kalashnikovs are revered and the M-16 requires incredibly detailed maintenance and was a battlefield failure initially.

Quote:
It's just not fun (and most people would find that incredibly frustrating and annoying to boot). Instead people would just decide to not use that secondary feature and that's counter-productive to providing it in the first place.
Yeah, you're right. All those folks at events all over the world, all the people who've played Heroscape for going on ten years, all the folks who bought thousands of dollars of this game are all cringing every time a power comes along with a D20. I know that I've never in my lifetime seen Braxas use his special power. I'd bet that Sir Gilbert's a total shelf toad since his special is so utterly random. Heck, I'd be sure that Cyprien's never used Chill Touch, I mean after all, it's a D20. Nobody believes in them.

I'm calling a spade a spade here. No more, no less.
I give up.
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  #74  
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:22 PM
Wytefang Wytefang is offline
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billtrumpet25 View Post

Not trying to provoke, hurt, or frustrate, but I get a kick out of Wytefang's assertion that the game and this environment itself (I added the environment part) is "[s]upposed to be fun", yet Wytefang is the individual getting very defensive. It seems he is the one with the knee jerk reactions here (from a neutral point of view).
People tend to get "defensive" when they are pointlessly attacked for having a differing opinion. I was also friendly and polite about my opinion (even called it as such) until I was insulted for having that opinion in SuperFly's post. Just want to make that clear.

And I appreciate your perspective. Sniping over something so pointless is just really silly. It's a game, nothing more, nothing less.

Game on!
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  #75  
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:24 PM
Wytefang Wytefang is offline
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Bill, I also liked your remark about "Luck is where preparation meets opportunity." That's a fair point and I think that's Codeman's point. I can definitely see that aspect of it.
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  #76  
Old July 18th, 2011, 08:35 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

I don't know about consistent bad luck, but Kelda rolled a 1 3 times in a row to kill my Spiderman, gravely wound Charos, and kill off Darrak Ambershard.

Then I rolled for my bro's 2 life Grimnak just for fun and killed it.
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  #77  
Old July 18th, 2011, 10:52 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Worst luck I've ever had:

I played a one-on-one match against my brother on a custom marvel map.

I had:
Incredible Hulk
Silver Surfer
Iron Man
Captain America
Spider Man

My bro had:
Thanos
Abomination
Doctor Doom
Red Skull
Venom
------
My bro systemmatically demolished my entire army without taking a single wound.

Some games are won and lost solely by the luck of the die.

Last edited by Master of Disaster; July 19th, 2011 at 12:09 AM.
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  #78  
Old July 19th, 2011, 12:22 PM
Billtrumpet25 Billtrumpet25 is offline
 
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Quote:
Originally Posted by master of disaster View Post
Worst luck I've ever had:

I played a one-on-one match against my brother on a custom marvel map.

I had:
Incredible Hulk
Silver Surfer
Iron Man
Captain America
Spider Man

My bro had:
Thanos
Abomination
Doctor Doom
Red Skull
Venom
------
My bro systemmatically demolished my entire army without taking a single wound.

Some games are won and lost solely by the luck of the die.
That's unfortunate, but you have to admit it's also kind of funny.
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  #79  
Old July 19th, 2011, 12:41 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

My friend and I were playing a match with random heroes. He rolled Sonya for his lowest point hero and requested another roll. I said no(that chart only goes up to 50 points so Sonya is a decent roll). He proceeded to destroy my entire army with her never placing an OM on another card and in the end had zero wounds. This is fairly common for me.

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  #80  
Old July 19th, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Last night I killed Raelin, Mimring, and Carr in 3 different matches with Cyprien and his really frigid fondling.

But, that being said, it's one of the first times I've ever used him effectively.

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  #81  
Old July 19th, 2011, 01:11 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Some players tend to win more than others, despite the dice. Some players win a *lot* more than others, despite the dice. Countless tournament reports are proof of that.

People can house rule whatever the heck they want, of course.

Now shake hands and go your separate ways.

/sheesh

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  #82  
Old July 19th, 2011, 01:44 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

I once had Braxas take out my opponent's Cyprien, Sonya, Venom, Stingers and Dividers. It all went so quick that my opponent never got to roll a single die. We were both laughing at the 20D rolls.

The next game that I played Braxas, I couldn't get a successful PAB roll in 12 tries.

I don't believe in luck, but I do believe in mean reversion.
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  #83  
Old July 19th, 2011, 02:17 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Some players tend to win more than others, despite the dice. Some players win a *lot* more than others, despite the dice. Countless tournament reports are proof of that.

People can house rule whatever the heck they want, of course.

Now shake hands and go your separate ways.

/sheesh
If you look at what armies win tournies, though, especially at GenCon, it seems like there's less D20 stuff, to be honest. Mostly Squadscape type situations.

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  #84  
Old July 19th, 2011, 02:32 PM
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Re: Worse luck EVER in this game

Ah, yes, variance.

Some units have more variance than others. Play them or not, it's up to you. I suppose Wytefang might be drawn to lower-variance units - squads of knights, say - where other players might not be. That's not a flaw in the game, though, that's a design feature.

And Wytefang is of course free to house rule however he wants to reduce variance even further.

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