Pirate Set?

[DrAwsm]

I don't know if this has been said before, but I would love pirates to join the Battle of All Time! IMO, the closest thing to a pirate sculpt is Guilty McCreech, but he's a cowboy.... Perhaps a themed MS would suffice? At the very least, I'd like some pirate heroes and squads included in a future Wave. Should WotC release a pirate MS, I'd like to see:

At least 2 "good" Unique pirates and at least 1 Utgar/Valkrill pirate.
A unique squad of good pirates; probably would be melee.
A common melee and a common ranged squad for the good guys, and their bad guy counterparts.
A large ship capable of holding 7 figures on the deck, one in the crow's nest, and cannons that can be used instead of a figure's attack. This would probably be unique, and would be similar to the Marro Hive, but more durable and can move only on water. I'd like to have one for both sides, but one would satisfy me.

As far as terrain goes, it would have at least 50% water tiles, some wood tiles for a dock, rope to either tie down the ship(s) or climb to the crow's nest, rocks that could damage the ship, trees for the island (or shore), and maybe a couple squads for the island natives.

Are these requirements enough for you, or not nearly enough? More figures? Less? Any and all feedback is appreciated!

[LMB]

Actually, a lot of people want pirates, so the subject comes up from time to time.

But I don't think we should be too optimistic about the idea, because...

- Pirates need a boat.
- The boat would have to be somewhat large.
- So then, take the number of hexes you think would be an adequate size for the boat, then try to figure out how you could possibly turn.

Going straight is easy, turning is pretty much out of the question.

[DrAwsm]

Originally Posted by LMB

Actually, a lot of people want pirates, so the subject comes up from time to time.

But I don't think we should be too optimistic about the idea, because...

- Pirates need a boat.
- The boat would have to be somewhat large.
- So then, take the number of hexes you think would be an adequate size for the boat, then try to figure out how you could possibly turn.

Going straight is easy, turning is pretty much out of the question.

Turning may be difficult, but given the option, I think the design team could work something out. Perhaps the boat is only 8 hexes large? It may only hold 3 figures, but it might be easier for it to turn. There's also the option of several smaller boats only 2 or 3 hexes large.

[azrael427]

All I have to say is wotc here's my debit card, send me any pirate scape you come out with.

[Tmac2200]

Seeing as we are currently in the whole DnD minis only thing the possibility is slim. Unless someone can find some pirate like minis in DnD, I don't see it happening. Also, a ship is not necessary and would add an unneeded mechanic and that along with cannons, vehicles, ect is something I would like to see Heroscape avoid.

[LMB]

Originally Posted by DrAwsm

Turning may be difficult, but given the option, I think the design team could work something out. Perhaps the boat is only 8 hexes large? It may only hold 3 figures, but it might be easier for it to turn. There's also the option of several smaller boats only 2 or 3 hexes large.

I don't mean to squash your dream, I think most of us would like to see pirates, but seriously what I was saying above isn't a thought exercise, lay out a big flat plain of hexes, call that the water. Now put your "boat" (another bunch of tiles) on the water and actually see how much of a problem turning really is. Even with just a 3 hex figure the movement rules get complicated really fast. This isn't to say rules can't be developed, but they would be clunky at best.

And I doubt anyone is going to get really excited about epic pirate battles in rowboats.

I have a small box of awesome minis from other games that I would love to make into HS customs but they would all take 3-5 hexes as their base. I've been down this road and it just doesn't work as easily as you might think.

[LMB]

Originally Posted by Tmac2200

Also, a ship is not necessary and would add an unneeded mechanic and that along with cannons, vehicles, ect is something I would like to see Heroscape avoid.

To me, it wouldn't be worth doing without a ship. Without a ship you'd just have units with pirate themed abilities like: Arrg.

Arrg
When a Pirate of the Seven Seas whiffs an attack, the player may immediately shout "Arrg" and attack again.

It would be pirate-theme just for the sake of pirate-theme. Though I guess it might satisfy some players itch for pirates.

But I do agree that vehicle mechanics and large weapons that can be used by any figure would unnecessarily complicate an otherwise elegant game and should probably remain in the realm of customs/house rules.

[chas]

Down through the years, pirates have been high on posters' wish lists. Actually, some of us have been using 7 hexers for boats in the Zombie Island scenario.

[Chardris1287]

I was reminded of the episode of Deadliest Warrior. Pirate VS Knight! I had my money on the knight because of his heavy armor, but the gun still was the winning factor for the pirate. That could be an ability for the HS pirates. +1 attack against knights or something. But the main theme of there abilities would involve water like the vipers.

[LMB]

Originally Posted by chas

Down through the years, pirates have been high on posters' wish lists. Actually, some of us have been using 7 hexers for boats in the Zombie Island scenario.

If you've got some good movement rules a lot of us would love to hear them.

[badgermaniac]

1. The boat doesn't have to move. In a skirmish game, it can be an anchored boat or a boat where movement is irrelevant (since the battle is just a quick snapshot in time). HS isn't a roleplaying game.

2. I do remember pirate adventures here and there in old D&D games, but I am guessing that no minis have ever been produced.

3. I don't see any new product development beyond the current level in the foreseeable future.

[CapnRedChops]

On Aug 10 I wrote:

Pirates would be grand... perhaps in a naval 'terrain' set that includes a Kraken, new deep water tiles, and two good sized (capable of carrying 5-6 hexes worth of figures) ships, with ship movement rules, and no need for ship combat rules.

Sea based heroscape rules:
Pick a direction to be North at the start of the game, then attach a special North arrow hex to the existing map at the start of the game.

After the order markers are placed, and after the initiative roll, the player with the initiative rolls the D20 to determine wind direction (1 - 2 = no wind; 3-5 = East North East; 6-8 = ESE; 9-11 = S; 12-14 = WSW; 15-17 = WNW; 18-20 = N - you get the non standard directions because of the six sided hexes).

Each player consults the very brief and simple ship movement table (players would get the hang of this quickly I imagine) and sets their sails accordingly to move the ship in the direction they want to go, and get the corresponding movement as directed by wind direction and sail alignment combined.
Each ship would have a moveable sail that can be clicked into one of six positions, as per the D20 roll above. (for customs - a sail could be stuck into stiff foam cut to fit a hexagonal nut underneath, and players could lift it off and stick it back on on the desired plane)
This ship movement occurs prior to the first order marker being activated.

After everyone has played their second order marker and before anyone has played thier third, the player with initiative then rolls for wind again.

This time, players only have the option to adjust sails one 'point' (ie the most minimal amount possible, so if the sail were aligned N, they can only be aligned ENE or WNW on this second alignment) and move the ships again based on wind direction and sail alignment prior to playing the third order marker.

Each ship has a card, but you never place order markers on it, and if the ship's movement would have moved them into a hex occupied by the other ship, or land, they'd have to defend against an 'attack'.
Both ships have greater defense if the hex that should have overlapped another ship or land is part of the prow or stern, compared to if they were hit amidships. Each ship might have different defense stats, but the same amount of lives.

If a ship is destroyed, all the figures on board drop directly onto the water (or possibly land) squares below the ones they were on aboard ship, and roll a D20. if they roll 1, they died in the shipwreck. If they roll 2-12, they take one wound. If they roll 13 or above, they are uninjured.

The army with the greatest number of hexes aboard ship being occupied by their army 'sails' the ship, making the decisions about sails at each wind roll - so each ship would need an odd number of hexes available. If there's an even number on board, control goes to those with initiative.

Non flying units can try to jump between ships, or from land to ship, or from ship to land if there is an available space for them to go, and the space they are on and the space they want to get to are seperated by a number of hexes equal to or less than half their movement, rounding up (eg Syvarris can move 5 spaces, so if the hex he's on and the hex he wants to get to are seperated by 3 or less hexes, he can attempt to board the other vessel).

They roll a D20 and must get 7 or better to succeed, or they fall in the water and take a wound. The amount of hexes between the hex they're on and the hex they want to get to gets added to the total required for success from this D20 roll. (eg there are three hexes between Syvarris and the empty hex on the ship Syvarris wants to get to, so Syvarris must roll 7 or better + 3 for the hexes, that is, 10 or better to board the other ship. Syvarris rolls a 9, and falls in the water hex along his trajectory but nearest his own ship for one wound.

Figures in deep water squares cannot board ships unless they have the aquatic ability (ie they are a marine creature/unit). Aquatic figures move up the side of a ship like land figures move up the side of a cliff - one movement point for each level and one more to be placed on the hex. Non aquatic figures in deep water squares can swim at half their normal land movement, but cannot attack, and can only defend with one die. Figures in normal water squares can board ships if they have the ability to move through water like the Fen Hydra can, and follow the same ship boarding movement rules as the aquatic figures do in deep water. Figues with water movement like the Fen Hydra (slither?) do not get any advantages in deep water, and suffer the same disadvantages as the non aquatic figures.

Normal land based figures can board a ship that is alongside land from that land hex as if they were moving up a cliff.

Figures in the water can be crushed by ships - ships that move into figures push them along in the direction the ship is going. If a figure is caught between land and ship, or one ship and the other, and a ship moves into the space occupied by the figure, the figure is destroyed. If the figure is not destroyed in this manner, but is pushed along by the ship, the pushed figure rolls a D20 - 1 - 10 they take a wound, 11-20 they escape injury. Add 5 to the result of that roll if the figure is an aquatic figure in deep water.

I could go into more detail if anyone's interested. I know I've presented it all as solid givens, but it's just a concept, it's all just an idea, so feel free to add, subtract or tweak it as you like.

CRC

P.S. I'll come up with the ship movement tables soon... if there's any interest.